Dear Hanan,
1. I think I cannot convince you on anything simply because your perception of things is not based on logic or reason but merely on your strong belief that you are always right, even if the whole world says you are wrong.
2. Jews have lived with Muslims in Muslim countries for centuries without any serious problem.
3. On the other hand in Europe, Jews were persecuted. Every now and again there would be pogroms when the Europeans would massacre Jews. The Holocaust did not happen in Muslim countries. Muslims may discriminate against Jews but did not massacre them.
1. I think I cannot convince you on anything simply because your perception of things is not based on logic or reason but merely on your strong belief that you are always right, even if the whole world says you are wrong.
2. Jews have lived with Muslims in Muslim countries for centuries without any serious problem.
3. On the other hand in Europe, Jews were persecuted. Every now and again there would be pogroms when the Europeans would massacre Jews. The Holocaust did not happen in Muslim countries. Muslims may discriminate against Jews but did not massacre them.
4. But now you are fighting the largely Muslim Palestinians. It cannot be because of religious differences or the killing of Jews living among them. It must be because you have taken their land and expelled them from their homeland. It is therefore not a religious war. But of course as you seek sympathisers from among the non-Muslims, the Palestinians seek sympathisers among the Muslims. That still does not make the war a religious war.
5. Whether you speak Hebrew or not is not relevant. Lots of people who are not English speak English. They don't belong to England. For centuries you could speak Hebrew but remained Germans, British, French, Russians etc.
6. Lots of Jews cannot speak Hebrew but they are still Jews. Merely being able to speak Hebrew does not entitle you to claim Palestine.
7. The Jews had lived in Europe for centuries. They identify themselves with their domicile. They fought the wars of these countries often against other Jews living in enemy countries.
8. These countries are their homeland. So why should they take Palestinian land to make their own country? They could take any of the European countries as their own country. The United States of America should offer one of its states as Israel.
9. As to history, the Malays had occupied a lot of land in Southeast Asia since time immemorial. Today much of our land has become part of neighbouring countries, having been conquered or because of treaties entered into by the British. We should really go to war to regain our land especially as there are Malays living there.
10. But we want to live in peace with our neighbours. So we accept the borders drawn by the colonialists.
11. You may say it is a joke to believe the Philistines are the forebears of the Palestinians. But what may be a joke to you is a serious belief of much of the non-Jewish world.
12. We did not have a Jewish representative at our conference. But I am sure when you have a conference in Israel you did not have Muslim representatives either.
13. I can sympathise over the killings of the Jews. But show me pictures of total destruction of Israeli towns and villages. Show me the effect of the primitive Hamas rockets on the Israeli people. Compare them with the effects of your bombs, rockets, shells, chemical weapons you used on the Gazans. When did Hamas blockade you and starve Israeli people and deprive them of medical attention. Did Hamas build a wall to separate Israelis from other Israelis including from family members? Did Hamas build settlements in Israel?
14. This idea of out-terrorising the terrorists, of massive retaliation on a scale that horrifies the whole world will not work.
15. Our people who went to Gaza were amazed at the attitude of the people there. Even after the deaths of so many of them, the deaths of their children and babies; even after their towns have been flattened, their schools and hospitals destroyed, they show no fear. Every one of them expects to die at any time because of your attacks but they would never surrender. When asked they simply said it is their land and they would defend it to the last. Even an Arab Christian priest was determined to stay on in Gaza. Those of their children who survive will prepare themselves to defend their land like their parents. Your attacks fail to terrify them or to force them to submit. You only succeed in instilling greater hatred of Israel and the Israelis.
16. When it was pointed out to them that they are no match for the Israeli forces and their weapons of mass destruction, when it was pointed out that their rockets were primitive and cannot compare with the destructiveness of Israeli rockets, they were not disheartened. The Israeli attacks simply strengthened their resolve to go on fighting. The Israeli idea to out-terrorise them has not worked and I believe it would not work.
17. Your arguments simply confirm my belief that the Jews have the same degree of hatred for the Palestinians, despite the fact that you suffer less than them.
18. The war has degenerated into a feud between Palestinians and Israelis. The Palestinians know they cannot win the war but that simply heightened their hatred for Israelis. They will nevertheless try to kill Jews, even if that will intensify Jewish hatred for the Palestinians. And you will retaliate with many times greater ferocity because you cannot force them to their knees. Their resistance simply increase your anger and hatred of them.
19. We have come to an impasse. If Israel is bent on occupying Palestinian land, on building Jewish settlements, on building Berlin walls and on sanctions and blockade, the Palestinians will continue their futile attacks. Arabs will die, maybe 10 for every one Jew. But with the hatred for Jews which they harbour, that is a worthwhile sacrifice. And Jews will kill more Arabs to express their hatred. And so it will go on as it had gone for 60 years, as it will go on for another 60 years or more.
20. Dear Hanan, tell your Government to compromise.
5. Whether you speak Hebrew or not is not relevant. Lots of people who are not English speak English. They don't belong to England. For centuries you could speak Hebrew but remained Germans, British, French, Russians etc.
6. Lots of Jews cannot speak Hebrew but they are still Jews. Merely being able to speak Hebrew does not entitle you to claim Palestine.
7. The Jews had lived in Europe for centuries. They identify themselves with their domicile. They fought the wars of these countries often against other Jews living in enemy countries.
8. These countries are their homeland. So why should they take Palestinian land to make their own country? They could take any of the European countries as their own country. The United States of America should offer one of its states as Israel.
9. As to history, the Malays had occupied a lot of land in Southeast Asia since time immemorial. Today much of our land has become part of neighbouring countries, having been conquered or because of treaties entered into by the British. We should really go to war to regain our land especially as there are Malays living there.
10. But we want to live in peace with our neighbours. So we accept the borders drawn by the colonialists.
11. You may say it is a joke to believe the Philistines are the forebears of the Palestinians. But what may be a joke to you is a serious belief of much of the non-Jewish world.
12. We did not have a Jewish representative at our conference. But I am sure when you have a conference in Israel you did not have Muslim representatives either.
13. I can sympathise over the killings of the Jews. But show me pictures of total destruction of Israeli towns and villages. Show me the effect of the primitive Hamas rockets on the Israeli people. Compare them with the effects of your bombs, rockets, shells, chemical weapons you used on the Gazans. When did Hamas blockade you and starve Israeli people and deprive them of medical attention. Did Hamas build a wall to separate Israelis from other Israelis including from family members? Did Hamas build settlements in Israel?
14. This idea of out-terrorising the terrorists, of massive retaliation on a scale that horrifies the whole world will not work.
15. Our people who went to Gaza were amazed at the attitude of the people there. Even after the deaths of so many of them, the deaths of their children and babies; even after their towns have been flattened, their schools and hospitals destroyed, they show no fear. Every one of them expects to die at any time because of your attacks but they would never surrender. When asked they simply said it is their land and they would defend it to the last. Even an Arab Christian priest was determined to stay on in Gaza. Those of their children who survive will prepare themselves to defend their land like their parents. Your attacks fail to terrify them or to force them to submit. You only succeed in instilling greater hatred of Israel and the Israelis.
16. When it was pointed out to them that they are no match for the Israeli forces and their weapons of mass destruction, when it was pointed out that their rockets were primitive and cannot compare with the destructiveness of Israeli rockets, they were not disheartened. The Israeli attacks simply strengthened their resolve to go on fighting. The Israeli idea to out-terrorise them has not worked and I believe it would not work.
17. Your arguments simply confirm my belief that the Jews have the same degree of hatred for the Palestinians, despite the fact that you suffer less than them.
18. The war has degenerated into a feud between Palestinians and Israelis. The Palestinians know they cannot win the war but that simply heightened their hatred for Israelis. They will nevertheless try to kill Jews, even if that will intensify Jewish hatred for the Palestinians. And you will retaliate with many times greater ferocity because you cannot force them to their knees. Their resistance simply increase your anger and hatred of them.
19. We have come to an impasse. If Israel is bent on occupying Palestinian land, on building Jewish settlements, on building Berlin walls and on sanctions and blockade, the Palestinians will continue their futile attacks. Arabs will die, maybe 10 for every one Jew. But with the hatred for Jews which they harbour, that is a worthwhile sacrifice. And Jews will kill more Arabs to express their hatred. And so it will go on as it had gone for 60 years, as it will go on for another 60 years or more.
20. Dear Hanan, tell your Government to compromise.
Salam Tun..
Saya tak salahkan mereka (Yahudi).Sudah masanya kita tuding pada diri kita.Apa yg kita mampu buat utk mereka...? Apa yg mampu mereka buat utk diri mereka sendiri(orang Palestine).Secara logikal tidak mungkin mereka akan menang dengan senjata..tapi Bagaimana?.Tun lihat sendiri la Hamas-Fatah,mereka sendiri tidak kuat...Tidak kuat?..tidak kuat yg sebagaimana??..lihat saja zaman nabi dahulu kala memenangi perang dengan pelbagai cara...secara fizikal dan mental... ape kekuatan mereka sebenarnya? tidak ada selain ikhtiar dan berpesan pada kalimah hak!..
Saya percaya ... kalau mereka (orang Palestin) berpegang pada kalimah dan berdakwah atas nama Allah.saya pasti dan yakin mereka akan menang...
Saya nak tanya TUN....
Antara Tanah Palestine dan Kalimah...mane yang TUN pilih?
Jews are genius because we're not. Enough said.
Why're we making our life dificult?
Salam TUN,
To Hanan,
Please read this web site. Israel as a terrorists state
www.serendipity.li/zionism/israel_terr.htm
Following are exstract from this site.
(1)This was the beginning of the policy of making the occupied territories 'Arab Free' by a combination of terrorism,land annexations,and settlements.
(2)More evidence Mossad killed JFK over Israel nukes.
NOW WE KNOW WHY THE US FOREIGN POLICY ON THE NEVER ENDING ARAB
CONFLICTS ARE ALWAYS LOPSIDED.WE WONDER, IF US HAS THE CAPABLITY
TO BOMB IRAQ AND AFGANISTAN BACK TO STONE AGE,IT WOULD BE A CHILD
PLAY FOR THEM TO RESOLVE THE PALESTNIAN ISSUE,IF THEY ARE
SINCERE.US IS JUST LIKE A PUPPET ON A STRING
assalamualaikum dr.mahathir... saya nak tanya, boleh ke yahudi pro-zionis kerja kat malaysia? curious; cikgu saya ialah yahudi pro-zionis... terima kasih...
Ha ha ha.... before there's BladeLizard now Borneorosette or Tawfik Hamid..... Who else.....???
All are the same: goyim, who are 'singing the old song'.......
Hi MSI & PAK ALI
Please re-read it again and see the explanation below
" 9. As to history, the Malays had occupied a lot of land in Southeast Asia since time immemorial. Today much of our land has become part of neighbouring countries, having been conquered or because of treaties entered into by the British. We should really go to war to regain our land especially as there are Malays living there.
10. But we want to live in peace with our neighbours. So we accept the borders drawn by the colonialists".
Point number 9 is the initiative statement or ' wish list' of the Ex-PM. Point 10 is the defensive statement.
Clearly you dont need an Oxford grad to explain this but a Mat from Sekhola Kampong will know it.
Leaders dont speak blindly but it does happen in Malaysia frequently which we see in the media. The Ex-PM is using words such as 'WAR' which speaks his intentions , and knowing it will stir commotions , he uses point 10 to say, we accept the boundaries laid by the colonialists and live in peace.
He could have just used the words, " We could have regained our land by other means". Not the word WAR. The choice of words is not favourable. Though it doesnt matter much now as Dr M is no longer holds power, but he still can influence his loyalist with his ideolgies.
Assalamualaikum Tun,
Can Hanan be or will ever be convinced by anyone or anything that's not agreeable with him? If it's a no then I believe it is mainly due to his obsession and his own interpretations of events that happened between Prophet Muhammad (saw) and the Jewish tribes in Yathrib (Madinah). I won't dig into this matter any further as many has sent in vast inputs and lengthy accounts of events and happenings related during that time. So doesn't this send the real picture Tun, that this Israel Zionist - Palestine issues is not only politically but also religion has been dragged into it. Even Hanan quotes a few passages from the Qur'an.
Those who reject faith and truth will stop at nothing. Their methods vary from time to time but their goal is the same. The battle between right and wrong, truth and falsehood will continue till the Day of Judgement.
Have you heard about this, Hanan:
Achtung! the Nazis are back. Neo-Nazis are on the rise in Germany. They plan to build a Fourth Reich on the back of the economic crisis, claims a far-right defector of Germany's neo-Nazi NPD, Uwe Luthardt who resigned to inform on the group which Germany tried unsuccessfully to ban several years ago.
This group relish the idea of a new Holocaust against the Jews and plot to bring Nazism back with a vengeance.
It sounds scary to me. If you want further details, Hanan go ask Germany. If it's true then what are you and your government going to do about it?. Another mess in your hands to settle.
But of course, there won't be bombings and shelling. Your government can compromise with Germany or is it the other way round.
May I bid peace be with you and please be a good Jew.
Take care Tun and May Allah Look Upon You Always.
Dear Hanan, if you are seeking the truth about item 11 as below, you can always check with the orthodox Jews who are strongly against the return of Jews to Israel as a Jewish state. Try read what is written on the bunting! May be its time for you to know something about your Judaism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oeB3QhX2RI
11. You may say it is a joke to believe the Philistines are the forebears of the Palestinians. But what may be a joke to you is a serious belief of much of the non-Jewish world.
Dear Hanan, if you are seeking the truth about item 11 as below, you can always check with the orthodox Jews who are strongly against the return of Jews to Israel as a Jewish state. Try read what is written on the bunting! May be its time for you to know something about your Judaism.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oeB3QhX2RI
11. You may say it is a joke to believe the Philistines are the forebears of the Palestinians. But what may be a joke to you is a serious belief of much of the non-Jewish world.
Let us all not be duped by a so-called Muslim by the name of Tawfik Hamid in his call for Muslims that - "time has come to stop our hypocrisy and say it openly: 'We Muslims have to Change'."
May I ask who is the hypocrite here? Or who is actually masquerading as a Muslim here? And who is this so-called idiot Tawfik Hamid who dares declares himself as a Muslim and yet dares to demonise Islam & The Muslims from top to bottom?
Isn’t it ironic that a Muslim would admit and declare by saying:–
- “…that our current Islamic teaching creates violence and hatred toward Non-Muslims”,
- “…until now we have accepted polygamy, the beating of women by men, and killing those who convert from Islam to other religions”.
- “…We have never had a clear and strong stand against the concept of slavery or wars, to spread our religion and to subjugate others to Islam and force them to pay a humiliating tax called Jizia”,
- “…We immediately jump in a 'knee jerk reflex' to defend Prophet Mohammed when someone accuses him of being a pedophile while, at the same time, we are proud with the story in our Islamic books, that he married a young girl seven years old (Aisha) when he was above 50 years old…”,
….. And so on, and so on…..
If I may ask.., does these words would really come from a Muslim? Or is this guy a fake who is actually masquerading as a Muslim? If we have Muslims like these, them there isn’t any need for fellow Muslims to educate the non-Muslims about Islam. The Muslims would have their hands full in ‘turning-around’ such a ‘confused’ Muslim to grasp and understand his or her own faith.
But I would regard that this Tawfik Hamid is actually an imposter and up to mischief, no good and create discord amongst Muslims, and perhaps even in sending messages to non-Muslims with queries in their minds, such as - “….You see, even the Muslims are not happy with their own faith and principles…!!”
Such imposters utilise the ‘reverse psychology’ and deception method to overwhelm the sentiments of the naïve & gullible ones, in their attempt to create favour or even discord. These evil tactics is very prevalent amongst especially those deceptive Zionists master propagandists and their PR ‘consultants’.
The Hollywood movie ‘Wag The Dog’ starring Robert De Nero & Dustin Hoffman would give you an idea of such wiles & deception. And we are now getting a very small sampling of such wiles & deception from a person by the name of so-called – Tawfik Hamid, who is now slowly creeping into this TDM’s blogsite…, for us to ‘tread on’ very carefully!
So, Muslims beware of such deception!
And then the guy goes on to say that – “..I am sad to say that many, if not most of us, rejoiced in happiness after September 11th and after many other terror attacks.”
May I ask this idiot….., which Muslim had rejoiced during the 9-11 incident? Was it not the US-Zionists controlled mainstream media who had displayed of some Muslims celebrating the incident. Take a look at the links below:-
First of all, let’s see the fake propaganda clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-9JpRytCx0&feature=related
And now, let’s see what were Muslims really happy (celebrating) about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p1efINNrLU&feature=related
And then, let’s observe the explanation here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuvscDkrs3U&feature=related
Instead, let us see who were the real ones truly ‘jumping-for-joy’ & celebrating when the Twin-Towers in NYC were collapsing during 9-11 incident, as per the link below:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw
and here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X63CQ-dXkwU&feature=related
and here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDZ-CQYG4cw&feature=related
So let not an imposter of Islam (such as this Tawfik Hamid) and those Anti-Islam mainstream-media deceive you about Islam, as what the link below suggest:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYIZy59T08Q&feature=related
Anyway, for the knowledge of Tawfik Hamid, allow me enlightened you that Osama ben Laden had no hand whatsoever in the 9-11 incident, as per the link below:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezIU6ZxYU3A
And by now after all these years, only COMPLETE idiots would believe that 9-11 was NOT an ‘inside-job’. And don’t expect even President Barack Obama (a Democrat) to disclose this fact. They have the same (Zionists) agenda, but they belong only to different political (party) teams. The so-called Two-Party system..!! Actually it should be ‘Two-controlled’ political party system.
Then, Tawfik Hamid goes on to say - ‘As a matter of honesty, Israel is the only light of democracy, civilization, and human rights in the whole Middle East.’
Well, what have this Tawfik fella have to say about this then:-
http://www.vanunu.org/
Would ‘the only light of democracy in the whole Middle-East’ had jailed and try to silence its own citizen from speaking-up and telling the truth?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmPEIt4fcnI&feature=related
Also, how can Israel represent democracy when a quote as below, goes:-
“The difference between the Jewish soul ... and the soul of all the Gentiles ... is greater and deeper than the difference between the soul of a man and the soul of an animal” — Rabbi Avraham Yitzhak HaCohen Kook (1865-1935)
The link below represents what is Zionist-Israel:-
http://www.serendipity.li/zionism.htm#israels_nukesd
As an end-note, this Tawfik fella had surmised that – “… The time has come to stop our hypocrisy and say it openly: 'We Muslims have to Change'….”
Again I ask who is the real hypocrite here? Who is this modern-day Abdullah Ubay ibnu Salul here? The Al-Quran has a complete Surah with regard to The Hypocrites – Surah 63 (Al-Munafiqun).
In essence, Hypocrisy is a personality disorder. It not only indicates a difference in word and action, but it is the antithesis to Conviction. A person with Conviction can be trusted in his word and action. On the contrary a hypocrite cannot be trusted. Linguistically the term MUNAFIQ is interesting. It refers to a person who, upon entering a situation, habitually looks for a way out. That is how rats in the wild dig their tunnels with one real opening and the other a fake opening just superficially covered with dust, in order to escape a predator. At places, the Qur’an terms their state as “a disease of the hearts.” It is to be noted that the hypocrites are not necessarily a group of people. They walked around the exalted Prophet as they do in every community today.
So, Tawfik Hamid if you are an imposter then sooner or later you will be exposed. But if you are a hypocrite then it would much more difficult to ‘uncover’ you. Then again, don’t go around pointing your finger and calling Muslims and Islamic principles as being hypocrites.
Muslims and Islamic principles have remained strong and unchanged for more than a thousand years. Muslims have tasted struggle, the golden ages and even a decline in technology advancement over the years. Nonetheless, Islam and the Muslims had always progressed and blossomed as the world’s fastest growing faith and with the undying adherents through this civilised age. Despite any ‘deficiencies’ as portrayed by enemies of the Muslims, nonetheless Islam have spread far and wide and without much hindrance – to the dismay and fear of the hypocrites and the enemies of Islam.
So, Tawfik Hamid take great caution as to whom you label and point your finger as hypocrites. When you do so, you fail to realise that a few of your fingers is pointing back at you….!!!
And as a note to ‘Borneorosette’ - What’s your point in posting this comment of ‘From The Heart of a Muslim’ and signing-off as – Tawfik Hamid, huh!?
It would more evident & apt to say - ‘From the heart of an Imposter or Hypocrite’…!!
--------------------------
Anyway, I wish to end this comment by including some ‘infotainment’ from a speech and lecture from Mr. Lou Farakhan of the Nation of Islam.
Don’t get me wrong here. I am no proponent of The Nation of Islam and neither am I an admirer of Mr. Farakhan. However, his speech does carry some very ‘heavy’ messages as a continuity of my previous comments a day or so ago, in this article-column of – Hanan 2…, i.e. with regard to The International Bankers…!!
Happy watching & listening, here:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbGJRJRgmg4&feature=related
and here:-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEz-f5Z9N54&feature=related
Till next time, cheerio…!
Dengan izin Tun...Terima kasih.
Hanan..what happened to you? Cat's got your tounge?
From the heart of a muslim ? Tawfik ...?
First and foremost you must go back to the definition.What is a muslim?
"Muslim means to obey, to submit ".
When Allah berfirman that Allah wants to create human beings, the Angel protest.After knows the factual reasons, they obey and submit.
(Muslim)
But Iblis defied Allah commands and revolts..that's is kafir..
So,whoever follows Angel attitude after given reasons and facts is muslim.
Whomever follows Iblis attitude after been given reasons, explanation and facts is kafir!...Plain and simple.
You claims you are a muslim.There is degree to that proclamation.
Jahil ? Muslim ? Mukmin ? Or Munafik ?
Which are your categories...Self defined ?
I put it to you that you are jahil...ignorance in the real muslim belief and values.
Who is the biggest Jahilian of all time? That is Abu Jahal.The father of ignorance.
Islam emphasis on knowledge."Iqra" the first surah from Al Quran is perfect example.
From your writing, its testify against yourself that you lacks true Islamic teaching.Asks yourselves this questions..
1) Do you perform your 5 days solah in the mosque?
2) Do you read the Quran everyday?
3) Do you pay your tithe and giving alms?
4) Do you perform sunah fasting every monday and thursday?
5) Do you goes for tazkirah and knowledge sirah ?
6) Do you perform jihad within your capabilities towards the cause?
7) Do you prepare going to Meccah for Haj?
Or MASYAALAH...YOU BELIEVE SOME AND DOES NOT BELIEVE THE OTHER? NOT IN TOTO ?
Asks yourselves all this questions and you will not be writing the article that you have wrote.
Change? Good one..It's starts with you..
Hanan..tsk..tsk..I thought you are so good..but you allows the Cat get's your tongue?
How unbecoming of you..
Dear Tawfik Hamid, I felt like I had to respond to your comment :)
Although you mentioned that you were born, raised and have been a Muslim all your life, it is quite clear that you're not really proud of it. Not only do you criticise the peoples of the religion, you even go so far as to criticise the religion itself.
Watch out what you say, my friend. And try and have a stand.
It is obvious that you've read up a fair amount of history quite well. But sad to say, it is only from the somewhat pro-Israel/anti-Muslims POV. They criticise and mock our religion. But they can do that. They're not Muslims. Their knowledge of Islam either does not go in very deep or come from a manipulated source. If not manipulated by themselves.
There is always 2 sides of a coin. As there is always 2 sides of a story.
If you sincerely consider yourself a Muslim as you said you are, you should at least feel obliged to read what the pro-Muslims have to say (if anti-Jew is a little bit anti-semitic for you). Even if only to see the perspectives on both sides of the coin.
Learn your religion well before you want to compare it against the others. It is not wrong for you to learn more that way. But do you know what comparisons should be made in the first place? Would you know the truth behind the claims? The peoples of other religion would not be the peoples of other religion if they believed Islam was true and held answers for them.
In fact, try to question their religion at some point. See what they have to say. They would surely back it up. They would have their stand.
So again, have your stand. Root to it. It only makes for a good personality trait, if not a human being.
Do not make the mistake of taking the Muslims now as the picture of Islam. We are all only humans, after all. It is unfair to judge something so perfect, so beautiful as Islam on the errs so common to human nature.
Be a true Muslim. Be proud of who you are. Learn of our glorious past. Be saddened by what has happened to us today.
Yes, we Muslims need to change. Not by trying to alter our religion to fit with the perception of unknowing others. But by altering ourselves, and our lifestyles, according to the true teachings of Islam.
May God show you light. I hope you find the answers.
Salam~
i donno y i need to comment to this guy Tawfik Hamid comment, though i believe no sane muslim should bother.. maybe i'm insane.
Dear Tawfik,
i really think u should educate yourself more about islam coz ur point is just show a lack of knowledge.
Dear Hanan, Jewish, Israeli Zionist,
Wonder what is your conscience say on this?
Front page story of the Independent, Sun, 1 March 2009
Independent UK revelations in brief: Secret unit on a mission to kill
The Independent on Sunday has obtained an account which, for the first time, details service in one of the Israeli military's assassination squads.
A former conscript has told the IoS and an ex-soldiers' organisation of his part in an ambush that went wrong, accidentally killing two men as well as the two militants targeted.
The ex-soldier, a trained sharpshooter, says he fired 11 bullets into the head of the militant whose death had been ordered by his superiors. The squad was initially told it was going on an arrest mission, but was then ordered on a minute's notice to shoot to kill.
Instead of the flaws in the operation being discussed afterwards, the squad was told it had "succeeded perfectly" and had been congratulated by the Prime Minister and chief of staff.
The former soldier, who was psychologically scarred by the incident, has never told his parents what happened.
To read further, please go to: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israels-death-squads-a-soldiers-story-1634774.html
For me, I say, we, citizen of the world, CANNOT let the Zionist militant regime get away with crime of murder and genocide of the people of Palestine.
What say you, Hanan? Would you agree with me and, of course, the rest of the world that NO one should get away with murder?
SJW
Dear Readers,
Ever since the dawn of time, the human races have always been at war. Boundaries of countries are drawn and redrawn, usually not by dialogues but by blood for there is no other way that one can take over another country by peaceful coercion.
Peace is achieved when there is no adversary ie no war. War is avoided when the victor TOTALLY dominates the loser or when the loser TOTALLY pledged subservience to the victor. Quoting 2 examples, Alexander the Great was ruthless in war but will almost always returned the control of his conquered land to the local inhabitants in return for their subservience & allegiance. On the other hand, the Mongols maintained peace by totally removing all forms & threats of opposition by the sword. Both ways worked.
Israel has a problem with the Palestinians because they are embroiled in a war that it could not win because unlike the olden days, there is a worldwide opinion that is important otherwise it would have been simple to wipe out the entire Palestinian population. Indeed the number of casualties in the recent war there was puny compared to what was lost in say, the Iran/Iraq war in the 80s, not to mean that the pain & sufferings of the Palestinians are to be demeaned. So it was for the relatively small numbers of Israelis that were killed by the Qassam rockets.
The Palestinians know this very well and so seek to prolong the war and it make sense to do it otherwise they might risk losing their aspirations to recover Palestine for Palestinians. The Israelis will keep knocking back with increasing intensity because there is no prospect of peace in an unended war.
Hence this impasse will continue until one party yields to the other which is highly unlikely because it is no longer just a war between Israel & the Palestinians but also a proxy war for their backers and some has already contended, it is also a war between ideals & religion.
There is no point in moralizing the right & wrong of the "occupation" of Palestine. Everyone has his own story and conviction on what is right which does not entitle him to be right in the eyes of the others. We can talk about this till kingdom comes. The only thing that is relevant to talk about is how to achieve the peace.
A compromise is the only way out since this war cannot be won by either party. Both should realize that failing which, violence will perpetuate itself in the middle east. But to even discuss about compromising is so difficult. The Palestinians said no talk if the borders are not opened. The Israelis said not talk if there is no removal of the Hamas concord for the destruction of Israel.
Hanan may have a point here in suggesting that perhaps Malaysia through our venerable Tun can make an effort in bridging the differences between to the 2 people in the hope that peace could be attained. For those of us who think that this is pointless and that solution is attained through the submission of Israel, we are then supporting a solution through WAR which cannot be won especially when it is the Palestinians who are doing the fighting.
As Malaysians, we are far removed from the reality & pains of living in Palestine but we talked as though we understand the problem so much that we deemed ourselves as correct proxies for the Palestinian people. For indeed if we are, we should know that the average Palestinian is just starving for peace no matter what.
Perhaps it may be interesting to know what the opinions are for the following 2 questions.
1. If I am an Israeli, what should I do to help restore peace ?
2. If I am a Gazan Palestinian, what should I do to help restore peace?
If there be a Palestinian here who can speak for Hamas like Hanan who is an avowed Zionist, this could be the avenue to start the spark for peace.
From the heart of a Muslim - Tawfik Hamid
I was born a Muslim and lived all my life as a follower of Islam. After the barbaric terrorist attacks done by the hands of my fellow Muslims everywhere on this globe, and after the too many violent acts by Islamists in many parts of the world, I feel responsible as a Muslim and as a human being, to speak out and tell the truth to protect the world and Muslims as well from a coming catastrophe and war of civilizations.
I have to admit that our current Islamic teaching creates violence and hatred toward Non-Muslims. We Muslims are the ones who need to change. Until now we have accepted polygamy, the beating of women by men, and killing those who convert from Islam to other religions.
We have never had a clear and strong stand against the concept of slavery or wars, to spread our religion and to subjugate others to Islam and force them to pay a humiliating tax called Jizia. We ask others to respect our religion while all the time we curse non-Muslims loudly (in Arabic) in our Friday prayers in the Mosques.
What message do we convey to our children when we call the Jews "Descendants of the pigs and monkeys"…. Is this a message of love and peace, or a message of hate?
I have been into churches and synagogues where they were praying for Muslims. While all the time we curse them, and teach our generations to call them infidels, and to hate them.
We immediately jump in a 'knee jerk reflex' to defend Prophet Mohammed when someone accuses him of being a pedophile while, at the same time, we are proud with the story in our Islamic books, that he married a young girl seven years old (Aisha) when he was above 50 years old.
I am sad to say that many, if not most of us, rejoiced in happiness after September 11th and after many other terror attacks.
Muslims denounce these attacks to look good in front of the media, but we condone the Islamic terrorists and sympathise with their cause. Till now our 'reputable' top religious authorities have never issued a Fatwa or religious statement to proclaim Bin Laden as an apostate, while an author, like Rushdie, was declared an apostate who should be killed according to Islamic Shariia law just for writing a book criticizing Islam.
Muslims demonstrated to get more religious rights as we did in France to stop the ban on the Hejab (Head Scarf), while we did not demonstrate with such passion and in such numbers against the terrorist murders.
It is our absolute silence against the terrorists that gives the energy to these terrorists to continue doing their evil acts. We Muslims need to stop blaming our problems on others or on the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. As a matter of honesty, Israel is the only light of democracy, civilization, and human rights in the whole Middle East.
We kicked out the Jews with no compensation or mercy from most of the Arab countries to make them "Jews-Free countries" while Israel accepted more than a million Arabs to live there, have its nationality, and enjoy their rights as human beings. In Israel, women can not be beaten legally by men, and any person can change his/her belief system with no fear of being killed by the Islamic law of 'Apostasy,' while in our Islamic world people do not enjoy any of these rights. I agree that the 'Palestinians' suffer, but they suffer because of their corrupt leaders and not because of Israel.
It is not common to see Arabs who live in Israel leaving to live in the Arab world. On the other hand, we used to see thousands of Palestinians going to work with happiness in Israel, its 'enemy'. If Israel treats Arabs badly as some people claim, surely we would have seen the opposite happening.
We Muslims need to admit our problems and face them. Only then we can treat them and start a new era to live in harmony with human mankind. Our religious leaders have to show a clear and very strong stand against polygamy, pedophilia, slavery, killing those who convert from Islam to other religions, beating of women by men, and declaring wars on non-Muslims to spread Islam. Then, and only then, do we have the right to ask others to respect our religion. The time has come to stop our hypocrisy and say it openly: 'We Muslims have to Change'.
Tawfik Hamid
Much have been said by many of us with regard the Jewish cum Israeli-Zionist person - i.e. Hanan.
Somehow, I feel we have still not hit the Nail squarely on the Head..!
To do so, it would only be appropriate to learn & discover from a rather popular Blogger - a self-declared ex-Zionist, but nonetheless still a Jew, who lives in Canada.
His research on one particular article (written & posted in 2004) with regard to The Nazi-Zionist collusion in the 1930's, provides us evidence in reality that 'Zionism is actually a conspiracy against The Jews'. How alarming this may sound for a Zionist such as Hanan, eh?
Take a look at his article and link, as below:-
http://www.savethemales.ca/000482.html
So Hanan, how shocking it is to discover that if you declare that you a Zionist, then be prepared to also to find that Zionism is out to destroy the Jews, despite the Zionists declaring themselves as being 'Jewish'.
It may sound like some sort of a 'twisted oxymoron', but still there you have it...!!
Anyway, as Dr. Makow have put it:-
"Zionism is a movement to deceive Jews into advancing the objectives of British imperialism..."
and also,
"..The "British" are really the London-based international banking cartel associated with names like Rothschild and Rockefeller. It doesn't answer to any government. Its goal is to colonize the world and everyone in it. Jews are a means to this end...."
Kindly ponder on that then, Hanan.
So, may it be Jews, Chinese, Malay, Indian, Arabs, Japanese, Europeans, etc., .... we are all actually being played to the tunes orchestrated by those satanic Zionists-International-Banking-Cartels who controls banks, currency and 'value' of money, period.
When everyone need money for their living, while they (those satanic Zionist-Bankers) are the ones who control the 'supply' & 'value' of money (currency), so directly & indirectly they 'control' just about everyone on the face of this earth....!!! Phew..... What a game-plan, huh?
And now... through the Internet, slowly but surely we are beginning to 'see' the hidden hands behind World Politics being uncovered...!!
Shockingly, we can now catch a glimpse of how Zionism as being a major tool of those satanic forces and whilst the Jews and the State of Israel as being one of the means to their satanic end.
As far as I am concerned, I am beginning to notice and realise that all of the innocent but gullible mankind of different ethnics and faiths of this world, are all actually being 'played' against each other to the benefit of some satanic and 'unseen' hands..!! And it's about time that these hands be uncovered and be pulled-out into the open...., for all to see!
So, are you still proud to be a Zionist then, huh..... Hanan!?
joshua kumar...
u need to read the whole point..not just no.9. then u will find out what its all about. dun jump into false conclusion that will make u look stupid.
SAYA MERASAKAN SUDAH SAMPAI WAKTUNYA TUN KEMBALI MEMBERI KAN PENERANGAN SECARA TERPERINCI MENGGENAI TUJUAN DASAR PSSMI INI DILANCAR DAN DILAKSANAKAN..WALAUPUN SAYA MELIHAT TUJUAN UTAMA DASAR INI ADALAH UNTUK MERPERKASAKAN KAUM MELAYU ITU SENDIRI AGAR MAHIR DALAM MEMAHAMI SAINS DAN MATEMATIK DI PERINGKAT TERTINGGI DAN TIDAK JANGAL APABILA BELAJAR DI TAHAP UNUVERSITI NANTI TETAPI PENENTANGAN TERHADAP DASAR INI KINI BERADA DI TAHAP YANG SUNGGUH KRITIKAL..LEBIH BANYAK FAKTA2 KEGAGALAN PSSMI DI KEMUKAKAN(X TAHU BETUL ATAU TIDAK)MUNGKIN JUGAK TUN SENDIRI HARUS TAMPIL DENGAN FAKTA2 KEJAYAAN PSSMI INI DAN DIBENTANGKAN...KINI YANG MENENTANG DASAR INI LEBIH KEPADA PERTUBUHAN2 BAHASA DAN PARTI2 POLITIK PEMBANGKANG TETAPI DI MANA SUARA PELAJAR2 YANG PERNAH BELAJAR DENGAN DASAR INI?ADAKAH MERKA SEBENARNYA GEMBIRA DENGAN DASAR INI TETAPI SENGAJA DI SOROKKAN...ATAU YANG MENJADI PUNCA KEGAGALAN ADALAH GURU2 YANG MENGAJAR?DIHARPKAN ADA SATU JALAN PENYELESAIAN YANG TERBAIK AGAR KITA TIDAK LAGI MENYESAL DI KEMUDIAN HARI
Assalamualaikum to Tun.
Tumpang lalu kerana hendak menyapa Hanan.
Shalom to Hanan.
Your reply to Tun regarding pogroms suffered by Jews when leaving Arabs lands like Syria, Yemen, Iraq and so on is interesting.
1. Let us check the years of pogroms. It's stated there happened on 30's, 40's and 50's. I think it's logical when Arabs leaders implemented or enacted any laws to evade Jews from it's land as to avenged Zionist regime to what they had done to Palestinians.
2. Don't blame Arabs and Muslems for reacting to Ben-Gurion solution to Palestinians when shouting "Garesh Otem".
3. Don't blame Arabs and Muslems for reacting towards most Zionist leader's dream about Erezt Yisreal or Greater Israel or Israel Raya, "from Nil to Euphrates River, from Damascus to Yathrib (Madinah) and its capital Urshalem or Jerusalem or Baitulmaqdis.
4. Don't blame Arabs and Muslems to believe Zionist conspiracy of it's bible "The Protocol of Learned Elders Zion" because the contents of 24 Protocol is happening today.
5. Don't blame Arabs and Muslems to believe the phrases "America is another Israel and Israel is another America" because it's really obvious during under Bush regime and his "neo-con" advisor, whose majority is pro-Zionist and has dual citizenship.
6. It's easy to say "let's compromise each other" but it's so difficult to forget what Zionist had done from Herzl era in 1897 until now. We also can list down the events, massacre, violation of UN Resolution. We can list down the names like Faris Odeh, Mohammad Al-Durar, Sabra & Shatilla, Qana 1996 and Qana 2006 (Lebanon tragedy), from Haganah to IDF, from Lehi to Likud party, 21st August 1969, Ashkenazi and Shepardi, Intifada I & II, from mosque to rubble, from mosque to nightclub or synagogue, the 1,400km x USD2mil per km Wall of Separation, Wall of Takeovers, from Al-Quds to Haykal, from JINSA to AIPAC etc...etc...etc.... Long list of "compromise" by Arabs and Muslems to live in peace? Long list of "price" that has to pay by Arabs and Muslem to live in peace?
7. What if you compromise to moved Israel state to South America or Africa or Texas? Can your Zionist governtment do that? Forget about Balfour Declaration, forget about UNGA 1947, forget about Holocaust, forget about billion of dollars of compensation that Germany has to pay. Just moved out, let the Palestinians go back to their homeland, let Palestinians refugees in Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and around the world go back to your homeland. They will promise to take care or your ancestor remains that you bring from Europe, Russia, Africa, US to URSHALEM until the Messiah come. They will promise to take care of all synagogue. Can you return back The Wall? Can you dismantle the Separation Wall? Can you let all Palestinians get their land back? They still got their keys to return home. Can you do that? Can you rebuild Gaza to COMPROMISE? Can you return back Golan Height to Syria to COMPROMISE? Can you let Afarat's remains to be rest in peace inside Al-Quds to COMPROMISE?
Thank you.
It is good to know about news that is happening in the Middle East. At least within Palestine itself, there is conflict and internal fighting between Fatah and Hamas. So when the conflict spills over, it will usually spill over to the Israel side. Just this scenario alone will tell us that it is not just one problem between Palestine and Israel. There are two problems. One, between Fatah and Hamas. Two, between Hamas and Israel. So where does Malaysia stand ? Fatah or Hamas ? And who do Palestinians want to lead them ? Fatah or Hamas ? Peace will come eventually. Israel will still be Israel. Still in Palestine because that strip of land is called Palestine divided into many countries. Palestinians will still be around. So if war is to be criminalized, it will have to affect all warring countries in the world. Lebanon too. Syria too. Egypt too. Iraq too. Iran too. Provocators too have to be monitored in order to stop them before they start attacking anyone.
Salam Tun and family
I am sure your assessment and analysis of this fued between the Arab/Jews/Palestinians/Israelies are not new to Mr Hanan nor to the Americans or Israelies. It would be shallow thinking if one is to view this fued as religious or racist. The fued has always been land from the very beginning but of course the Israelies (esp the Jews who have settled post World War 2) will vehemently deny this because to them the land of Palestine has been reserved for them from the very beginning and the British were just formalising it in writing after the World War 2. The steady migration of Jews to this promised land they called Israel have slowly but effectively displaced the original natives of Palestine ie. the Palestinian Jews and Arabs. The latter got the worse end of the stick simply because there are not Jews. I am sure if one does a population survey on Israel, it would not be a surprise if the majority of the population is made up of Jewish migrants who have displaced the native Palestinian Jews. These are the Jews which are currently running the country's administration and army and I am not surprised because of their holocaust history, they are intolerant to anything which they view would threaten their territorial rights. The same thing happened in North America where the English/Polish/Italians etc. had settled and displaced the Apaches, Sioux, Comanches, etc. tribes and the same thing happened in Australia too. The massacres of the native tribes and destructions of their homes there were no less serious and catastrophic than what has happened in Palestine now except then it was just cannons, rifles, bows and arrows instead of guided missiles, rockets, artilitery shells, chemicals weapons.
Tun, your sincere wish for them to compromise has long gone I am afraid... even if (and its a big IF) the Jews are finally convinced and decided to move towards a peaceful compromise, deep in my heart I know the Palestinian Arabs would be harder to convince because of the so many death, sufferings and destruction they endured for so long. People like Mr Hanan should be ashamed and sad about what has happened to his country and people.... and in return for their arrogance and brutality, God has punished them by making them live in fear for their lives(for every corner they turn, they know there is an Arab waiting to kill them) until the end of time !
Salam
Salam Tun,
Please permit me:
To Joshua Kumar:
Hello kawan, you need to read between the lines lah. What TDM is saying that kind of logic of attacking a country on the pretext of your own people living there is no longer acceptable in this day and age! He didnt say lets attack Singapore, if he wanted to he could have done it when he was the PM, but he didnt!
The one you should worry about is the Senior Minister of Singapore who were so kiasu and challenge anyone to attack Singapore a few years back. I am not surprised of his attitude because he modelled his country after Israel, built his army with help of Israel and has many close dealings with Israel. They even drafted a pre-emptive strike strategy to include Johor in their plan. So who is acting like an asshole here, surely not Malaysia! And this is after we have been feeding them almost free water for endless years! The perangai is exactly like jews!
So Joshua, read carefully next time and dont be unnecessarily alarmed if you could not understand TDM's language.
The world need a new beginning, 90% of the world problems can be wiped out if the US and her adopted child - Israel behave and mind their own business!
Wassalam Tun
.
Salam Tun Dr. Mahathir...
To Hanan.
To answer your question no.1 above = Why can't israel be HAPPY & GRATEFUL & CONTENTED with the agreed land boundaries "GIVEN" to them by British which was somehow agreed upon by UN back in 1948???
BUT of course.. you people wanted MORE.
So OK, they expanded the Palestinian land and "GIVE MORE" to you in '67.
Over 4 DECADES, you Greedy Peeps of israel have NOW occupied MORE THAN 90% of Palestinian lands! Again, you're just So bloody KIASU-to-the-MAX!!!!
WHY CAN'T YOU BE GOOD Earthlings & FOLLOW the borders Already SET????
fcchoi.
DO pick your brain mass that had fallen down to your knee!!! Otak kat kepala lutut, ka? 8-p
PEACE ON PLANET EARTH !
.
Dear Hanan,
Your response to Dr. M really make me laugh. It look like a younger kid who committing big mistake by giving childish excuse to his parent. Clearly you living in your own world by became deaf and blind. I'm surely believe that your own government also have the same level of thinking as yours which is impossible for both parties to have dialog.
Your brief history of Jewish in Arab land still did not convince me. Jewish in Europe on the other hand were massacred and persecuted. Hence, Pogroms and Holocaust took place in Europe. Jewish would possibly vanished if German do not defeated in WW2. History speak itself.......
Your mind full with hated toward Islam (which is I do not know why, where by christian people who historically committed a lot of sins to Jewish were not received the same remark from you). And yet European Christian who committed so called Pogroms and Holocaust to Jewish.............. this is the fact which your might forgotten to tell.
A dialog between Judaism / Jewish and Arab Islam would not successful if a person like you involved because you always thinking you are right. Where is your openness........... a dialog would only happen and successful if there is openness from both parties.
Therefore I shall consider you as a extreme Jewish men who his mind centered with Zionist ideology which not really representing Jewish community as a whole. Thus, you not qualified to be considered as Hanan a Jewish but only can be considered as HANAN A ZIONIST.
Kepada "aqilfithri" dan komen anda pada 19 Februari. Kalau hendak ulas berkajang-kajang, sila tulis dalam blog anda sendiri. Belajar ilmu dalam Bahasa Inggeris tidak akan mengurangkan darjat keMelayuan sesiapa pun! Menyalahkan dasar pencarian ilmu menggunakan bahasa lain adalah fikiran yang amat dangkal! Masih ada berjuta cara lain untuk memartabatkannya. Mulakan dari dalam diri kita sendiri!
Dear Tun,
It not worth even a dime to discuss about this hanan fella Tun.
But sad many of his kind have the same carved-in-stone mentality.
Take care Tun.
rams
Dear Dr M,
Sir, I read point 9 of your Thread Heading 'Hanan 2' below with much grave concern. You have mentioned ' going to war' with neighbouring countries. Can you mention which countries are you mentioning here.
9. As to history, the Malays had occupied a lot of land in Southeast Asia since time immemorial. Today much of our land has become part of neighbouring countries, having been conquered or because of treaties entered into by the British. We should really go to war to regain our land especially as there are Malays living there.
As far as I know, Singapore was part of the Malaysia Land and there are Malays living there. Are you saying, Malaysia should go to war with Singapore to regain back the land. Dont you think this comment of yours is silly and would create unnecessary tentions and hurting bilateral relationships?
Please comment.
Joshua Kumar
Dear Tun and Hanan,
Dear Tun,
Thank you very much for your patient to reply Hanan's email. Im more ever proud to be a Malaysian by having you as my x prime minister. I hope that you could continue to this topic with Hanan. I think we are making some progress to let both side understand each other. Malaysian should encourage more jewish to join this blog. From whait i read in Hanan's reply I think most jewish wanted peace but that they just don't know how to do it right. I hope we can continue these topics with a cool mind. Maybe in this blog is the most direct and constructive dialog between jews and muslim.
Dear Hanan,
I believe most of the israelis want peace but the way your government handle the situation is in plain "STUPID". There is one crucial point you can never win is that israel is build on paletinian land, that is the history fact. Palestinian understand the fact that they cannot claim back their land and they live with it. Why can't your government be more gracious in offering aid and finacial support to those homeless palestinian which you taken their land from? Imagine the home you stayed build by your great grandfather now claimed by a forreigner saying that it belongs to him thousand of years ago...
HELLO ~~~~ does it make sense to you?! May I asked where is your grandfather come from ? Im hell sure he is not born in israel coz there is no israel 60 years ago.
What Im saying is that your goverment must take the initiative steps to solve the crisis, maybe you claimed withdrawing from the gaza is sufficient as an initiative ..well clearly that is not enough. The problem is what I think Mr Obama got it right that there is no hope shared by the palestinian. Even you withdraw from gaza and what is left is a land full of scars. Palestinian are loosing hope so they turn to hatred. You may think Im crazy but my solution to the crisis is .....HELP PALESTINIAN TO REBUILD GAZA GIVE THEM HOPE let them know that there is more in life than becoming a terrorist. Show to the world that you respect your neighbours. TALK TO THEM WITHOUT PRECONDITION
Lastly, I hope you goverment do REALISE thart your country is surrounded by muslim countries. Be a good neighbour.
Kalau tuan2 nak tau si Hanan ni sebenarnya cacat anggota badan disebabkan Roket Hamas..tu yg dia menyampah sgt dgn Islam..But let's not forget that before qiamat all Jews would be wiped out by Muslims and each day they fear that the day will come sooner rather than later..
Dear fcchoi,
Stupid to argue this way!. If we had given a portion of our land to the Jews, and we prove to the Jews we are not inhumane, so what? Will the Jews stop all the killing and return the land to Palestinian.
By the way, are you humane? How do you want to prove that? Will you give a portion of your property to prove that you are humane or more humane?
Humane or inhumane, how to determine? It depends on which side you are.Like you,may be bombing and killing Palestinian women,children and the elderly is humane but killing Jews is unhumane.....it up to you. I would prefer to have refererred the Israel action to International court, let the court decide or may be we could another tribunal to look into this......Giving Malaysian land to the Jews serves no purpose (are you joking? ha ha ha). There are plenty of UN resolutions that Israel fail to comply with. Should other country fail to comply with UN resolution, there will be sanction and more sanction, why is it so?
YES there is no Jews in Saudi Arabia. This needs long explanation. Please read posting above regarding Bani Quraizah and the Charter of Medina. May be you can get some ideas...why...........
"Before Islam, yes there are plenty, like Bani Israel in Saudi soil"
-When before Islam there is plenty of Bani Israel. Which Bani Israel that you refer to? Different Jewish tribes went to Arabian peninsular (not only Saudi Arabia) to escape Roman persecution. before that. I would say there would be no Jews in Saudi Arabia....may be there is, but not plent. Just read the posting by other bloggers about Jews in Arab/Saudi Arabia...
Dear Hanan,
1. Appreciate the way you reply to our dearest Dr. Mahathir writing. You did it, phrase by phrase.
2. At least, this is the way to understand the mind of the Jews, for any of their action towards Palestine.
3. For the case of massacres of Bani Qurayzah, I'm agreed with the point forwarded by "artofmin".
4. Some of your point if very meaningful to us. We agreed that the method of confronting towards Israel which being carried-out by Palestinians is already out-dated. Yet, they still appreciated the person who practiced it. Insanity, is doing the similar action repeatedly, and expected the different result.
5. At least, you agreed that Palestinians should find the different approach to confronting you.
6. To Tun Dr. Mahathir, please continue with Hanan 3. We love to understand more, the point of view of Purely Zionist.
7. We believed that, in nearly every chapter in Al-Quran, Allah had quoted "something" about Bani Israel. Even the coverage of Bani Israel is more than the phrase on Hudud. Why the story of Bani Israel is the most repeated in Quran? That's the secret, which supposedly to be well understand by the person whose mothertounge is Arabic, and the person who claimed to be al-hafiz. And this discussion is become more meaningful, because it reveal more on Bani Israel.
8. What we could conclude is, to understand the Israel weakness is to understand more of their strength. So, to all Muslims (especially Arabs), the obvious weakness is our unity and inteligence. If we could confront our own weakness, no reason for us to fail further.
Salam. Waiting for Hanan 3
Salam Tun,
Permit me Tun,
To fcchoi:
On your proposal for Malaysia to donate a piece of land to the jews, i propose Ipoh area which i think they will feel at home. Since we are willing to give Ipoh area, Tel Aviv should give equivalent area in Jerusalem to Malaysian Moslem to settle with their Arab brothers, or Washington donate a piece of Manhattan area and China donate Shanghai to the Palestinians refugees. That way it will be fair to everybody. What do you say?
We have no problems living with Jews if they do not practice Zionism and cause destructions to their host country.
Wassalam Tun
Dear Nobita,
Your perfect conviction about Muslims ruling the world is unfortunately matched by others on the other side and from such, have the world seen much bloodshed and misery ever since when history was first recorded.
Maaf Tun panjang sikit comment kali ni.
Dear Hanan,
As a muslim, I’m still not convince with ur reasoning to Dr. M remark. But let me say point to point why I don’t really convince even though I’m not as learned as u.
1. “Dear Dr. Mahathir, on the other hand it is hard to convince you about the simple rights of Jews to have their own independent state on the land that was belonging them thousands years ago.”
What was belongs to you thousands of years ago cannot be use as a right to something that is not belong to u now, be it u lost it, sell it, stolen, taken by force or what so ever the reason of you losing ur possession. Not unless the current owner is given some compensation for it and cannot be taken by force. Should u have the legal right to claim the land and can prove it as yours then let independent judiciary of international law decides. And as we know u were given a piece of land there already, and the boundary was set. (tho some muslims may argue it’s legality, but I believe majority of muslims do accept that boundary).
“Why should Muslims have so many independent Islamic republic and kingdoms and a single independent Jewish state on such small area is a big deal?”
As ditto as long as the right of way of obtaining the state is “legal” I don’t think anyone will argue about it. i.e the claim of independent from the british colonial should be made by local population and as known that the jews are not that many locally, it would be the Palestinian arab that should claim the independent. If how ever a significant number of jews wants to claim independent state from the british then they should have find a place of no mans land or should they want that piece of land that have local population then they should compensate the local ppl or accepting them as part of future populace. But much of what I heard they were forced out.
2. “Here is a “brief” summary about the problems/riots against Jews in different countries which I collected to enlighten the knowledge of all:”
All of this examples seems to come about the time of declaring Israel state which can be assume because of that, all this happened. If the Muslim government really were trying to wipe out the jews they would be long extinct or fled. How difficult would it be to exterminate the jews in their country were they really means to do that, long before the Zionism come about? Very easy I think with its small population but why until then?
3. regarding prophet Mohammed and the banu quraiza, u should find the answer if u were to study alittle detail about the event. And about the royal palace of Granada the timeline is too far from current event with nothing in between to hold the grudge.
And the “Islam and Muslims are not purified of evil mistakes, but Muslims are failing to admit that”.
All I can say is I never heard Zionist admitting they were wrong either. And about Malaysia racism do exist but not to the extent of Zionist. It’s still tolerable. And I agree they would be time when the jews flourish and depress, same as other minorities as well. The jews at times given high regards in community perhaps will be well like and accepted by the ppl if they maintain their ways, alas they want more and cant wait for ppl trust to build up, more demanding than giving i.e greed.
4. if I left Malaysia for so long then my land were taken by the government and change hand for whatever reason coz nobody claim it then I have to live with it. My descendent can’t claim the land as theirs if they ever return. It just not right for the new owner. Same goes to Israel. And to use reason such as god gave jews the land is to making it a religious claim. Then u no better than the hamas themselves. And also would mean that the Israel Zionist wants the land in the name of god, and will use whatever means necessary. Means they also don’t want peace till they got it.
5. “Australia, New Zealand is English speaking countries. From where is that language coming? Aren’t the roots from England? The origins of people of those countries (colonialists, not natives) were English”
This is true, but England won’t freely give them citizenship. And I don’t think same rules apply to them in England as with the native english. Even they are descendent from England doesn’t means they are citizen of England.
“I know that many Palestinians are living now in America, Canada, England and many other countries for at least two generations or even more. They speak the native language whatever it is and maybe also Arabic. Why do they call themselves Palestinians and claim the rights to return to Palestine while the Jews must remain the citizens of those same countries?”
The rights of return are claim by the Palestinians that is living in Palestine as refugee to return to their land in Israel which was taken from them by force. Those living in other countries are immigrants and should they able to get the citizenship of that country then there where their loyalty should be.
6. Here again u claim it on religious believe, means u making it a religious war, yet u claim the muslims are making it religious war. The reason why the muslims countries are not united is because they don’t think it’s a religious war (only some of them do), if they do think it’s a religious war, then they will unite and that my friend u won’t like it. Just give them enough reasons and u will see how true that is.
“Israel belongs to the Jews whatever anyone may think, like or dislike that fact. On the other hand, Palestinians have the rights to live here with equal rights just because the fact they have been here for centuries. We respect that right. This is our compromise of that land.”
This first sentence is already end of discussion. You just don’t care what other ppl think. Should the Palestinians were really sharing the equal rights they would have won the election for their sheer number, but since Israel claimed to be belongs to the jews they had to cast out most of the Palestinians out of Israel to make it looks like a democratic election.
7. That means anyone should be loyal to the place of their citizenship. And so were the muslim inside the Israel army. Means the jews were generally accepted into those countries as citizen then why the need to choose another? This is just my assumption but couldn’t be far from truth that most of the Chinese around the world wouldn’t go back to china just because they were called to service as an obligation of being Chinese. Unless something had stirred their peace living, that generates general discrimination towards them, which can actually be arrange to serve the purpose of them answering the call. Basically that is what the Zionist had done with the jews, sacrifice half of them so that another half would have nowhere to go but Israel.
8. “In this case, I would say that all Palestinian refugees worldwide are second, third, fourth or more generation are the citizens of their new countries and cannot claim the return rights. Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and all other countries shall offer them the place. Would you accept that? Are the Palestinians accepting that?”
This is like I said before, if u got the citizenship of other country then there where ur loyalty should be and no right of return. The problem is as they are refugees, they don’t enjoy the citizenship of the country. Most and probably all of the jews do have their citizenship with where ever they reside before Israel and does should not have the right of return. Many Israelis hold 2 citizenships, should the 2 countries at war, where will their loyalty be? Most probably they will take the easy way out to save their skin and becomes hypocrite.
9. Dr. M was giving example, like there are large malay community in southern thailand border to Malaysia that can speak malay and been there for generations. In no way we Malaysia will claim that piece of land from the Thailand just for that reason. And if the same reason were to be use, we could even claim Singapore. Does ur claim for right of return is not quite right. And the Palestinian claim of right of return is up to the original border line. To have ur forces occupying beyond that border even to bring ur citizen for settlement is just not right. Once u have counter attack any resistance militant u should draw back behind ur borderline. Ur IDF has becomes more of Occupying Force than a Defense Force.
10. Like I said above, the best border is the original but I don’t think Israel will give that much and seeing from how the occupation force and the settlement were set up.. They meant it to grab more land and thus making this a territorial war and will lead to many excuses just not to end the war. Perhaps a more agreeable border would be a simple straight line between tel aviv and Jerusalem, like north and south korea or north and south Vietnam. Obviously the north is much fertile land and the south is a barren desert thus maybe a 60% south and 40% north of land area are fair. And ofcoz a few kilometer UN strip on the border to avoid future war and the UN will control the international crossing. The problem is would Israel give up either one of those cities? And as for the nobel prize I don’t think Dr. M care much about it. Neither would I.
11. As for the philistines which in itself are means ‘invader’ thus not the first ppl there but if we are to claim prehistoric rights, might elsewell we go back to Adam which means the world is one, it’s urs and it’s mine.
12. If u were to reread his line “conference in Israel” not anywhere else, but then it’s not really possible to have representative of all the people of every races and tribes and religions. But if it represent 90% of global population it’s good enough.
13. The problems I see here is that Israel are out away from their border, if u are so value the life of Israel civilians then pull them out of conflict area back to the safety of ur town or somewhere far from harm. To put them in the front (i.e. settlers) is just an excuse to dictate the Palestinians in their own land. There shouldn’t be much problems with the hamas should the the north/south state with UN controlling the international crossing.
14. Israel lost their credibility when they seems to always retaliate more than necessary. Where are ur sense of justice? 1 life lost to a killer then whole family of the killer have to pay their life? Very uncivilized.
15. U always seems to blame the hamas and their charter, but then again is there any fairness in the Zionism concept if not down right racist?
16. “Can I increase that value endless? I may damage the system.”
Maybe that what the Palestinians want, to damage the system. But the clever Israel know this so they can’t use the bigger fuse, but always push it just enough not to damage it.
“A new approach to solve the problem is required. A violent resistance – terror is not the way. Let’s not push each other to the wall and meet in the center of the room to speak. This is a different approach in my point of view. Let’s brainstorm and do something for the next generations.”
How about compromise the system functionality a little bit to solve the problem and maintain the system stability? Would Israel compromise their functionality of governing the Palestinians outside their border such as west bank? In other word keeping only system functionality that is needed within the system without jeopardize other ppl system. The best perhaps is to separate Palestinians from Israelis i.e. put them offline from each other, an agreement that guarantee any Palestinians freedom to go within their territories without having to meet a single Israelis and vice versa. 2 state solution without the Israelis checkpoints. Meaning the need to combine the gaza and west bank or a direct access.
17. Well the degree of hatred seems to be from both sides so I have no comments. Hopefully both side will in time forgive and forget.
18. seems both side are on agreement so do i. perhaps the above solution would be consider by both sides.
19. whom to blame? Perhaps we should look into history which sides die first. Who was the first person died in both side that lead to all these aggression? Or maybe who was the first to be oppressed by the other. Then we know why wouldn’t we.
20. the way I see it, it seems Israel government compromise one thing yet taking advantage of another. Making compromise in gaza yet building another settlement on west bank. Giving a lot of barren desert land and claiming the best and even strips of land so as to keeps the Palestinians separated. My solution would be simple, draw a straight and simple as possible border line of equal value to both sides and take ur pick. Both sided will have their advantages and disadvantages. I’m pretty sure hamas would agree to this much simple solution except Israel always were trying to renegociate it as to give them all if not most of the advantages and call it a stall and branding Palestinians as nonnegotiable. I just couldn’t understand why on earth were they occupying gaza and west bank in the first place. A retreat is not really a compromise, it just what u supposed to do.
As Israel are claimed to be democratic, advance, wise and clever state then it is suiting for them to start the initiative and willing to compromise more for the sake of humanity. As for ur religious claim I just cant understand why those high up on ur religious believe the rabbis are against all this, the Neturei Karta, I’m sure u heard of them. If u don’t then follow the link for their reasoning http://www.nkusa.org/
Salam.
p.s - honestly Israel doing is leading to the prophecies of war between muslims and jews (or more accurately the Zionist) where all jews are gathered at one place. As much as I believe it, I wish it wont be in my lifetime. And if it does we must think which side we want to be in. and as for u, take the rabbis side and u will be spared, for the ppl of the book is as good as the muslim themselves if they stay true to it. – peace -
Jews lived in comfort and prospered in places like in Cochin in India, in Baghdad, Basra in Irak, in Iran (where they continue to prosper and thrive) in Syria, Yemen, Morocco, Tunisia and for a while in large numbers in Egypt as well.
It was during the Zionist campaigns to entice an unwilling Jewish population in these places to take up an idealist lifestyle in Jabotinski's vision of an Israel (mind you he was playing the role of the messiah to take the Jews back to that "promised land")that grenades began falling in popular up market restaurants and in stores and businesses owned by Jews in these places.
It was a campaign of terror organised by the Stern Gang, the Haganah and Irgun, all three later legitimsed as arms of the Israeli security aparatus.
There was no Arab nor Muslim campaign against the Jews in these places prior to the invasion of Palsetine by the Europeans calling themselves Israelis. The Muslims have always considered them fellow semites which is what they are.
The assaults against Jews in these countries were carried out by gangs under the control of Begin (Menachim), Shamir (Yitzak) and others who would later rule Israel as Prime Ministers. Their treachry is well documented.
It was the handiwork of Menachem Begin against the British that earned him a bounty over his head. He engineered and carried out the massacre of innocent unarmed Palestinians in Jordan in refugee camps and continued to engineer their killings wherever and whenever it suited his political objectives of the politics by fear.
His biggest mistake was to order the backing of Hezbollah after the 1982 invasion of Lebanon to oust the PLO. It was his mistaken belief that all Arabs were like the Saudis and the Gulf Arabs who could be manipulated in order to maintain their illegitimate positions as absolute rulers in these states. Clearly he was mistaken.
Hezbollah, the armed wing of Hamas and their welfare and social arm Amal have turned out to be their greatest threat like the Taleban are to the US. Another great foreign policy disaster for these states that proclaim the right to rule all and sundry.
In the end every Jew must remember that "Israel was never a land without people for a people without land". They must negotiate without arms or force with the Palestinians from whom they stole land.
Moshe Dyan realised it. He was a soldier and respected his adversary had to be his ally to survive. He was ostracised by the establishment in Israel for saying so.
Yitzak Rabin another decorated soldier and former leader of Israel conceeded the same message to his people. He was assassinated for that. But his killer is celebrated as a hero openly and not as a terrorist in Israel.
Finally Ariel Sharon the architect of the massacres of Sabra and Chatilla using Phalangists as his gloves conceeded the same message to his constituents. He too mysteriously fell from grace and from the public eye after that.
Until the Jews learn to have a life outside of the seige mentality of the imaginery persecuted lot they are, they will repeat the mistakes of the past suffered under Scheklegrubber (alias Adolph Hitler). It was not only Hitler but all of Europe that wanted them dead or out. And the world is begining to understand why.
One day the lamb must and will lie with the lion and do so in peace. The holoucast no longer has any currency with the majority in this world. It has been used as a fig leaf to commit and justify the worst offences against humanity by a people that prostitute the memory of those killed in world war 2.
Tun:
When you say to Hanan 2 "I think I cannot convince you on anything simply because your perception of things is not based on logic or reason but merely on your strong belief that you are always right, even if the whole world says you are wrong...." you have identified the fallacy of all of his arguments.
He deals with debate from the false precept of belief rather than fact or knowledge.
It was once said of George Bush, that he really doen not know anything, he simply believes. It is this which made the man so dangerous.
Well, it is not as if he did the thinking and deciding in his Presidency anyway... yet he knew nothing, he simply believed everyhiing his AIPAC and Neocon handlers told him, and did as he was directed.
You are wasting valuable time trying to teach or explain anything to Hanan 2. His motive and method is neither to learn from you or persuade you, but to simply tie you up in debate; and resson,logic, persuasion and learning have nothing to do with it.
He is just wasting your valuable time. Deliberately so!
A wise critic of Zionism recently said of people like him, "I do not engage or talk with people like those, it is pointless; I talk about them that others may learn who they are, what they have done, and what they are doing."
With highest regards,
Earlaiman
Salam YAB Tun,
Izinkan saya buat komen dan memberi pandangan terhadap tajuk yang amat menarik ini dan reaksi Hanan Feb 22, 2009 6:15AM.
Pertama sekali saya amat gembira dan berasa amat bangga dan lega membaca sebahagian komen daripada saudara kita artofmin Feb 23, 2009 8:45PM. Tetapi malangnya tulisan beliau terhenti pada perkara 47, Piagam Madina.
Saya harap beliau sihat dan akan terus mencuba untuk membentangkan fakta-fakta beliau kepada Hanan tetapi sayang tersangkut mungkin atas sebab-sebab teknikal agaknya.
Kita sebagai orang Islam harus berupaya dan berani mempertahankan agama suci kita dan Nabi junjungan kita dengan sentiasa berkata benar sehingga kebenaran itu akhirnya terserlah.
Mencintai Allah dan RasulNya adalah fardu dan mengatasi cinta kita kepada selainnya walau diri kita sendiri, ibu-bapa kita, saudara seagama kita, dsn. Mentaati Allah dan RasulNya adalah keutamaan bagi setiap muslimin-muslimat dan mu'minin-mu'minat.
Kita harus sentiasa berbaik sangka sesama kita dan selalu mengikut teladan Nabi junjungan kita Muhammad s.a.w didalam segala tindakan beliau secara zahir mahupun batin, perkataan, perbuatan dan amalan solehnya.
Semoga Allah selamatkan kita semua, agama kita, iman kita, tauhid kita, iktikat kita dan jasad kita.
Izinkan saya sedikit masa, ruang dan laluan untuk bersama Hanan tetamu YAB Tun yang harus kita hormati dan jangan kita anggap beliau sama seperti Haman dizaman Fir'aun dan Nabi Musa. Kita harap dan berdoa agar beliau mungkin akan menjadi seorang bilal suatu hari nanti di Jerusalem.
HANAN,
Salam Alaikum, Shalom and Grace.
Thank you for being back with us and giving your point of views and comments to Dr. Mahathir on some issues he raised.
You suggest a positive approach which is interesting and it seems that you are really serious and an optimistic person working very hard to find a win-win solution for a better future to both party.
Who you are is not a problem but to tell you the truth, I really admire your courage and strong will and I hope you will carry on with the positive approach to seek truth and justice. And I won't be suprise you may end up being a true muslim yourself if you carry on asking, seeking and knocking.
When you say Islam and Muslims are not purified of evil mistakes, I have to agree and say that you are partly right because the truth is that everyone regardless of their religion or creed are not purified of evil mistakes. Maybe a few, only Allah know but we don't.
I would like to correct your views regarding prophet Muhammad whom you quote "massacred the Jewish tribe Banu Quraiza." Actually Hanan, I strongly presume you already know the answer why, but you fail to accept the truth or just because you really hate Islam and Muhammad.
Some historian like Paret and Watt (Wikipedia) say that the Banu Quraiza were killed not because of their faith, but for "treasonable activities against the Medinan community." They broke the pack with Muhammad (please read the Medina Charter/Constitution of Medina or please read: artofmin Feb 23, 2009 8:45 PM).
I am sure you know that the Banu Quraiza (also known as the "priestly tribe" - they were decendent of Aaron), provided the Muslims with spades, picks and baskets for the excavation of the defensive trench during the Battle of the Trench, but later they were persuaded by a Jew from Khaybar that Muhammad was sure to be overwhelmed.
So after the war, they were charged with treason and besieged by the Muslims. They knew of the penalty for breaking faith with Muhammad that is not to support an enemy against Muhammad and against the Medinan community. The treatment of Quraiza was a regular Arab practice in those day.
Do you know that Banu Nadir and Banu Quraiza, both tribes are Jews, used to appoint Muhammad as their arbitrator in their dispute. Why do you think they appoint Muhammad and not one of their own people. I would be very happy if you could refer to Surah Al Maidah, 5:42-45 (if you have the time do continue reading until ayat 57 or better still untill the end).
Let us all remember that the greatest barrier for a human that bans him from seeing the truth is his approach with prejudice.
Thank you Hanan for your time and also for your beautiful and lovely poem. But very unfortunately we Muslims could only raise a toast of wine with or without you later in Paradise.
Terima kasih Dr. Mahathir, may Allah bless you and Hanan.
Wassalam.
Tun, sometimes I find the clashes between these two parties beyond comprehension. If the clashes have anything to do with religions, it is even more mind bogggling. They believe in the same God (or at least my little knowledge about them lend me the credence to believe so). Instead of fighting against the devil or satan or lucifer or the religious monsters like leviathan or behemoth or chimera, they choose to fight each other. Perhaps it is true that God has a special way of displaying HIS divine omnipresence and omnipotence which mortals like us cannot dream of comprehending but, the little conscience that I have somehow, I must apologise to everyone here, induces me to the belief that if there is God, He must be a damned imbecile and inane moron for He chooses not to utilise His might to prevent conflicts among His believers and choose to hide secretly and comfortably up there peeping on us killing each other to see who among us are His true loyal followers. That may be divine arrangement beyond my understanding but how on earth can a race so proud of producing so many top minds like Einstein and other brilliant minds be perennially engaged in some stupid unproductive warfares with the followers of the last Messiah of the same God (even if they don't recognise The Last Messiah, they are the followers of the same God) and yet infatigably preaching on us to love each other and fight the devil and satan? Could this insane war that they continue to wage which draws their attention away from the real fight against evil be the cause of the flourishing of evil among us? Somehow I am beginning to believe in Dan Brown's "Angel and Devil".
Salam Tun,
The Jews are the smartest Human race on earth due to their lineage to the early prophets... but then they have become stuck up due to superiority in major businesses of the world...
But they forget Allah is watching over any man on earth who creates destruction. Dues will be paid in due time. That is a promise by Allah...So be warned!
Dear Hanan,
1. .Do you learn history? Before the birth of Prophet Muhammad, Jews had been troublemakers to other races and religions, and even after the Prophet Muhammad’s death. The Holocaust was their creations and why the holocaust should is their point to get world sympathy to their cause to claim Palestinian land. What Nazi Germany had done to the Jews, had nothing to do with the Palestinian people. Jews have to blame themselves for what Nazi Hitler had done to them. Why Hitler had so much hatred for them and gassed millions to death. I think Hitler had done some home works on Jews, so much so he became enraged and making it his priority to obliterate Jews from the surface of the world. Unfortunately, he had half accomplished his mission; otherwise there won’t be Israel – Palestinian conflict that had run more than 60 years. So, let take at this point that Hitler was right to some point in his treatment of the Jews.
2. Do you learn history? Our fellows Muslim past and present have always been remained by our almighty Allah through Quranic verses on how fellow Muslims always are cautious and be prepared for the unexpected. Almighty Allah is a creator and he knows the character of each of his creation.
3. Do you learn history? How did the Christians treated the Jews when they took over and occupied Ba'tulmaqadis (Jerusalem) from the Muslims and compared to the treatments accorded by Khaliq Salahuddin (Saladdin) when he retook the city. So, Kingdom In Heaven depicted the truth of Islam, that we don’t segregate based on religion. But Israelis government accorded second class citizen to Israelis Arabs. Your ultra-rightist Likuk – Yisreal Beiteinu would-be collation government (Benjamin Netanyahu – Avigdor Lieberman (Russian immigrant) ) would not give much to Mid East peace prospects. Benjamin Netanyahu has a history.
4. American Jewish Council, Jewish American Public Relation Association (Lobbyist group) and other Jewish funder groups have bloodied hands in the bloody Mid Eastern conflict. They have history and continue to create notorious history for their generation to ponder. Jewish State will not last a day without the assistance and support from these Jewish organizations
5. I have every belief that what Henry Ford wrote in his book The International Jews is true to the very chore. Otherwise, he won’t have that much hatred for the Jews.
6. Palestinian people are hardworking, industrious, brilliant & intelligent (if not better than Jews), survivalist (how they survived and keep on surviving under stressful environment). If given a chance to have a nation of their own, they would be one of the most developed and successful nation in the world, overtaking Arab nations, and Israel would immensely benefit from it. Let compromise, Hanan!!!.
So, Hanan kindly look back why the world community doesn’t sympathise with Jewish cause in Palestinian-Israel conflict and the ever growing anti-Zionist Israel around the world. Do remember Hanan, not all Jews believe and agree in the creation of Israel Jewish state and what Zionist Jews had done to the Palestinian shamed them being Jews.
Thanks, Hanan you can be a good and better Jew if you live a world of reality, not in a world created by your Judaism-Zionist-Hebrew theology.
Thanks Tun, anyway kindly gives us some comments why immunity of Malay Rulers was removed during your tenure. Some highlights from Tun would shed some lights on the issue, especially the Malays are having doubts over what you did.
Salam, Chalom,
Keen to comment after reading posting from Dr. M and Hanan.
It is clear that Hanan is one of the Zionist. It is clear that Zionist is enemy of Islam.
That's why they attack Afghanistan, Iraq and now going to attack Iran. All are Muslim majority countries.
Hanan tried to look nice and reasonable in his words.
No matter how nice the words used by him, it is all the Jews tongue after all... The tongue that created all the nice words such as democracy, human rights etc. for the good of themselves.
Yeah, they influenced almost all the people in the world. They even made the german agreed with this. That's why german feel very bad about themselves and feel very sorry with what they have done in WW2. Israel even get a huge amount of money every year for the compensation.
After the speech from Dr. M "Jews rule the world by proxy", they become very angry. Many bad words thrown to Dr. M.
In the movie "Zoolander" i think it is about 1000 times the actor Ben Stiller (a Jew) said "Kill the prime minister of Malaysia!". An effort to brainwash the people to hate Dr. M especially and Malaysia in general.
They hate Dr. M. They scrutiny Dr. M closely. Even come to read Chedet Blog!
They know Dr. M is very influential person and now try to bribe him with Nobel Price! See how powerful are Jews. Even nobel price winners are decided by them!
Hanan, you can bribe Anwars (Sadat and Ibrahim), but surely not Dr. M... Dr. M is much more intelligent than you think.
Dr. M, you contributed much to Malaysia. Now spend your time to contribute to Islam as well. May Allah bless and guide you!
Salam Tun,
Please allow me to clear certain statement made by our friend Hanan. Before I go to that I just wonder if Hanan is a true Jew (by means of Judaism) or a Messianic Jew.
Peace on to you Hanan,
Jews and Islam/Muslim are supposed to be closer with each other (in our concept of one God, both doesn’t accept idolatry, both practice circumcision, Jew with the kosher system while Islam with the halal system, both performs qurban – where animal is ritually slaughtered and many more).
And I also been told that a Jew can pray in mosque if there is no synagogue but cannot do the same in church because they consider Christians as an idol worshipper.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
• Hanan:
May be it is true but not 100% of all the facts. Yes, in some cases Jewish life flourished under Muslim governing, but it was centuries ago at the beginning of Islam and during its spreading. Let me provide some Jewish life under Muslims governing and among Muslims. Living of Jews in Muslim countries must not be related to the Israeli-Palestinian problem; not by time and not by location. This is according to what Muslims claim as their justice and fairness to minorities including Jews. Here is a “brief” summary about the problems/riots against Jews in different countries which I collected to enlighten the knowledge of all: (read Hanan Feb 22, 2009 6:15AM)
Me: Hanan…when it comes to fairness of Muslim you want to narrow the time line. It is because Jews previous and continuing (track back how whole world treated the Jews) action that makes later Muslim to treated Jews as they are now. You gave a great detail how the Jews were treated by Muslim in those countries, please give us all detail how European treat Jews.
• Hanan:
As far as I know prophet Mohammed massacred the Jewish tribe Banu Quraiza. Why did he that? Why did he accept massacring all surrendering men that were already fettered? Where is the mercy of the prophet upon surrendering prisoners?
Me: Again… please give us detail how European treats Jews. Instead you want to harbor hatred by twisting the question by our Tun.
Pls Hanan, don’t twist the fact. Read the Medina Charter (below), mind you that’s this ‘document’ was made during the time of war & the document was drawn up with the explicit concern of bringing to an end the bitter inter tribal fighting between the clans. It is also concluded a covenant and a truce with the Jews, confirmed them in their religion and their property, and imposed obligations on them and guaranteed them certain rights. Alas, the Jewish tribe, 1 by 1 became treacherous and negotiated with Meccan (enemy) forces to revolt against Muhammad. Owh by the way, there was fighting in Yathrib (Medina) mainly involving its Arab and Jewish inhabitants for around a hundred years before.
Medina Charter/Constitution of Medina
1. This is a document from Muhammad the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), governing relations between the Believers i.e. Muslims of Quraysh and Yathrib and those who followed them and worked hard with them. They form one nation - Ummah.
2. The Quraysh Mohajireen will continue to pay blood money, according to their present custom.
3. In case of war with any body they will redeem their prisoners with kindness and justice common among Believers. (Not according to pre-Islamic nations where the rich and the poor were treated differently).
4. The Bani Awf will decide the blood money, within themselves, according to their existing custom.
5. In case of war with anybody all parties other than Muslims will redeem their prisoners with kindness and justice according to practice among Believers and not in accordance with pre-Islamic notions.
6. The Bani Saeeda, the Bani Harith, the Bani Jusham and the Bani Najjar will be governed on the lines of the above (principles)
7. The Bani Amr, Bani Awf, Bani Al-Nabeet, and Bani Al-Aws will be governed in the same manner.
8. Believers will not fail to redeem their prisoners they will pay blood money on their behalf. It will be a common responsibility of the Ummat and not of the family of the prisoners to pay blood money.
9. A Believer will not make the freedman of another Believer as his ally against the wishes of the other Believers.
10. The Believers, who fear Allah, will oppose the rebellious elements and those that encourage injustice or sin, or enmity or corruption among Believers.
11. If anyone is guilty of any such act all the Believers will oppose him even if he be the son of any one of them.
12. A Believer will not kill another Believer, for the sake of an un-Believer. (i.e. even though the un-Believer is his close relative).
13. No Believer will help an un-Believer against a Believer.
14. Protection (when given) in the Name of Allah will be common. The weakest among Believers may give protection (In the Name of Allah) and it will be binding on all Believers.
15. Believers are all friends to each other to the exclusion of all others.
16. Those Jews who follow the Believers will be helped and will be treated with equality. (Social, legal and economic equality is promised to all loyal citizens of the State).
17. No Jew will be wronged for being a Jew.
18. The enemies of the Jews who follow us will not be helped.
19. The peace of the Believers (of the State of Madinah) cannot be divided. (it is either peace or war for all. It cannot be that a part of the population is at war with the outsiders and a part is at peace).
20. No separate peace will be made by anyone in Madinah when Believers are fighting in the Path of Allah.
21. Conditions of peace and war and the accompanying ease or hardships must be fair and equitable to all citizens alike.
22. When going out on expeditions a rider must take his fellow member of the Army-share his ride.
23. The Believers must avenge the blood of one another when fighting in the Path of Allah (This clause was to remind those in front of whom there may be less severe fighting that the cause was common to all. This also meant that although each battle appeared a separate entity it was in fact a part of the War, which affected all Muslims equally).
24. The Believers (because they fear Allah) are better in showing steadfastness and as a result receive guidance from Allah in this respect. Others must also aspire to come up to the same standard of steadfastness.
25. No un-Believer will be permitted to take the property of the Quraysh (the enemy) under his protection. Enemy property must be surrendered to the State.
26. No un-Believer will intervene in favour of a Quraysh, (because the Quraysh having declared war are the enemy).
27. If any un-believer kills a Believer, without good cause, he shall be killed in return, unless the next of kin are satisfied (as it creates law and order problems and weakens the defence of the State). All Believers shall be against such a wrong-doer. No Believer will be allowed to shelter such a man.
28. When you differ on anything (regarding this Document) the matter shall be referred to Allah and Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace).
29. The Jews will contribute towards the war when fighting alongside the Believers.
30. The Jews of Bani Awf will be treated as one community with the Believers. The Jews have their religion. This will also apply to their freedmen. The exception will be those who act unjustly and sinfully. By so doing they wrong themselves and their families.
31. The same applies to Jews of Bani Al-Najjar, Bani Al Harith, Bani Saeeda, Bani Jusham, Bani Al Aws, Thaalba, and the Jaffna, (a clan of the Bani Thaalba) and the Bani Al Shutayba.
32. Loyalty gives protection against treachery. (loyal people are protected by their friends against treachery. As long as a person remains loyal to the State he is not likely to succumb to the ideas of being treacherous. He protects himself against weakness).
33. The freedmen of Thaalba will be afforded the same status as Thaalba themselves. This status is for fair dealings and full justice as a right and equal responsibility for military service.
34. Those in alliance with the Jews will be given the same treatment as the Jews.
35. No one (no tribe which is party to the Pact) shall go to war except with the permission of Muhammed (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). If any wrong has been done to any person or party it may be avenged.
36. Any one who kills another without warning (there being no just cause for it) amounts to his slaying himself and his household, unless the killing was done due to a wrong being done to him.
37. The Jews must bear their own expenses (in War) and the Muslims bear their expenses.
38. If anyone attacks anyone who is a party to this Pact the other must come to his help.
39. They (parties to this Pact) must seek mutual advice and consultation.
40. Loyalty gives protection against treachery. Those who avoid mutual consultation do so because of lack of sincerity and loyalty.
41. A man will not be made liable for misdeeds of his ally.
42. Anyone (any individual or party) who is wronged must be helped.
43. The Jews must pay (for war) with the Muslims. (this clause appears to be for occasions when Jews are not taking part in the war. Clause 37 deals with occasions when they are taking part in war).
44. Yathrib will be Sanctuary for the people of this Pact.
45. A stranger (individual) who has been given protection (by anyone party to this Pact) will be treated as his host (who has given him protection) while (he is) doing no harm and is not committing any crime. Those given protection but indulging in anti-state activities will be liable to punishment.
46. A woman will be given protection only with the consent of her family (Guardian). (a good precaution to avoid inter-tribal conflicts).
47. In case of any dispute or controversy, which may result in trouble the matter must be referred to Allah and Muhammed (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), The Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) of Allah will accept anything in this document, which is for (bringing about) piety and goodness.
48. Quraysh and their allies will not be given protection.
49. The parties to this Pact are bound to help each other in the event of an attack on Yathrib.
50. If they (the parties to the Pact other than the Muslims) are called upon to make and maintain peace (within the State) they must do so. If a similar demand (of making and maintaining peace) is made on the Muslims, it must be carried out, except when the Muslims are already engaged in a war in the Path of Allah. (so that no secret ally of the enemy can aid the enemy by calling upon Muslims to end hostilities under this clause).
51. Everyone (individual) will have his share (of treatment) in accordance with what party he belongs to. Individuals must benefit or suffer for the good or bad deed of the group they belong to. Without such a rule party affiliations and discipline cannot be maintained.
52. The Jews of al-Aws, including their freedmen, have the same standing, as other parties to the Pact, as long as they are loyal to the Pact. Loyalty is a protection against treachery.
53. Anyone who acts loyally or otherwise does it for his own good (or loss).
54. Allah approves this Document.
55. This document will not (be employed to) protect one who is unjust or commits a crime (against other parties of the Pact).
56. Whether an individual goes out to fight (in accordance with the terms of this Pact) or remains in his home, he will be safe unless he has committed a crime or is a sinner. (i.e. No one will be punished in his individual capacity for not having gone out to fight in accordance with the terms of this Pact).
57. Allah is the Protector of the good people and those who fear Allah, and Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) is the Messenger of Allah (He guarantees protection for those who are good and fear Allah).
• Hanan:
On December 30, 1066 (9 Tevet 4827), a Muslim mob stormed the royal palace in Granada, which was at that time in al-Andalus, assassinated Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela and massacred most of the Jewish population of the city. Assuming that vizier was a culprit of evil, why should those Muslim massacre almost all Jews of Granada? If there is a single Muslim terrorist among a group, should we kill the whole group?
Me: Hanan…those are from Richard James Horatio Gottheil (1862—1936) was an American Semitic scholar and Zionist & Meyer Kayserling (born in Hanover, June 17, 1829; died at Budapest, April 21, 1905) was a German rabbi and historian.
And here is the statement from Bernard Lewis (born May 31, 1916 in London, England) is a British-American historian, Orientalist, and political commentator:-
"the massacre is usually ascribed to a reaction among the Muslim population against a powerful and ostentatious Jewish vizier."
Lewis writes:
Particularly instructive in this respect is an ancient anti-Semitic poem of Abu Ishaq, written in Granada in 1066. This poem, which is said to be instrumental in provoking the anti-Jewish outbreak of that year, contains these specific lines:
Do not consider it a breach of faith to kill them, the breach of faith would be to let them carry on.
They have violated our covenant with them, so how can you be held guilty against the violators?
How can they have any pact when we are obscure and they are prominent?
Now we are humble, beside them, as if we were wrong and they were right!
Lewis continues: "Diatribes such as Abu Ishaq's and massacres such as that in Granada in 1066 are of rare occurrence in Islamic history."
Lewis's latest book "Islam: The Religion and the People", is a useful primer for those who are new to this topic. From his research, Lewis draws the following conclusions regarding the modern menace of Middle-Eastern terrorism:(Pages 145-150 of the book):
1. "At no time did the (Muslim) jurist approve of terrorism. Nor indeed is there any evidence of the use of terrorism (in Islamic tradition)."
2. "Muslims are commanded not to kill women, children, or the aged; not to torture or otherwise ill-treat prisoners; to give fair warning of the opening of hosilities;and to honor agreements."
3. "The emergence of the now widespread terrorism practice of suicide bombing is a development of the 20th century. It has no antecedents in Islamic history, and no justification in terms of Islamic theology, law, or tradition. It is a pity that those who practice this form of terrorism are not better acquainted with their own religion, and with the culture that grew up under the auspices of that religion."
4. "The fanatical warrior offering his victims the choice of the Koran or the sword is not only untrue, it is impossible."
5. "Generally speaking, Muslim tolerance of unbelievers was far better than anything available in Christendom, until the rise of secularism in the 17th century."
The episode has been characterized as a pogrom. Walter Laqueur (Walter Zeev Laqueur (born 26 May 1921) is an American historian and political commentator) writes, "Jews could not as a rule attain public office (as usual there were exceptions), and there were occasional pogroms, such as in Granada in 1066."
• Hanan:
You said Muslims may discriminate Jews. Why do you say “may”? This is because you refuse to be convinced that Muslims are practicing discrimination according to their faith and Quran. Jews discrimination by Muslims is not racism? Muslims discrimination economically by NEP of the Malaysian minorities is not racism? When a minister says that the Malaysian Chinese are “guests” in Malaysia while they are Malaysian born for at least several generations, is not racism?
Me: Hanan…read the Quran again and again and again, and compare it with the Talmud (The Talmud is a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, customs, and history. It is a central text of mainstream Judaism.) As for the Malaysian part, come visit us.
• Hanan:
The destiny of Jews and other religious minorities in Muslim countries is similar and depending very much the “good will” of the government at the particular time. There is a time minorities are flourishing and times they are depressed. There are some minor
Salam Tun,
Please allow me to clear certain statement made by our friend Hanan. Before I go to that I just wonder if Hanan is a true Jew (by means of Judaism) or a Messianic Jew.
Peace on to you Hanan,
Jews and Islam/Muslim are supposed to be closer with each other (in our concept of one God, both doesn’t accept idolatry, both practice circumcision, Jew with the kosher system while Islam with the halal system, both performs qurban – where animal is ritually slaughtered and many more).
And I also been told that a Jew can pray in mosque if there is no synagogue but cannot do the same in church because they consider Christians as an idol worshipper.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
• Hanan:
May be it is true but not 100% of all the facts. Yes, in some cases Jewish life flourished under Muslim governing, but it was centuries ago at the beginning of Islam and during its spreading. Let me provide some Jewish life under Muslims governing and among Muslims. Living of Jews in Muslim countries must not be related to the Israeli-Palestinian problem; not by time and not by location. This is according to what Muslims claim as their justice and fairness to minorities including Jews. Here is a “brief” summary about the problems/riots against Jews in different countries which I collected to enlighten the knowledge of all: (read Hanan Feb 22, 2009 6:15AM)
Me: Hanan…when it comes to fairness of Muslim you want to narrow the time line. It is because Jews previous and continuing (track back how whole world treated the Jews) action that makes later Muslim to treated Jews as they are now. You gave a great detail how the Jews were treated by Muslim in those countries, please give us all detail how European treat Jews.
• Hanan:
As far as I know prophet Mohammed massacred the Jewish tribe Banu Quraiza. Why did he that? Why did he accept massacring all surrendering men that were already fettered? Where is the mercy of the prophet upon surrendering prisoners?
Me: Again… please give us detail how European treats Jews. Instead you want to harbor hatred by twisting the question by our Tun.
Pls Hanan, don’t twist the fact. Read the Medina Charter (below), mind you that’s this ‘document’ was made during the time of war & the document was drawn up with the explicit concern of bringing to an end the bitter inter tribal fighting between the clans. It is also concluded a covenant and a truce with the Jews, confirmed them in their religion and their property, and imposed obligations on them and guaranteed them certain rights. Alas, the Jewish tribe, 1 by 1 became treacherous and negotiated with Meccan (enemy) forces to revolt against Muhammad. Owh by the way, there was fighting in Yathrib (Medina) mainly involving its Arab and Jewish inhabitants for around a hundred years before.
Medina Charter/Constitution of Medina
1. This is a document from Muhammad the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), governing relations between the Believers i.e. Muslims of Quraysh and Yathrib and those who followed them and worked hard with them. They form one nation - Ummah.
2. The Quraysh Mohajireen will continue to pay blood money, according to their present custom.
3. In case of war with any body they will redeem their prisoners with kindness and justice common among Believers. (Not according to pre-Islamic nations where the rich and the poor were treated differently).
4. The Bani Awf will decide the blood money, within themselves, according to their existing custom.
5. In case of war with anybody all parties other than Muslims will redeem their prisoners with kindness and justice according to practice among Believers and not in accordance with pre-Islamic notions.
6. The Bani Saeeda, the Bani Harith, the Bani Jusham and the Bani Najjar will be governed on the lines of the above (principles)
7. The Bani Amr, Bani Awf, Bani Al-Nabeet, and Bani Al-Aws will be governed in the same manner.
8. Believers will not fail to redeem their prisoners they will pay blood money on their behalf. It will be a common responsibility of the Ummat and not of the family of the prisoners to pay blood money.
9. A Believer will not make the freedman of another Believer as his ally against the wishes of the other Believers.
10. The Believers, who fear Allah, will oppose the rebellious elements and those that encourage injustice or sin, or enmity or corruption among Believers.
11. If anyone is guilty of any such act all the Believers will oppose him even if he be the son of any one of them.
12. A Believer will not kill another Believer, for the sake of an un-Believer. (i.e. even though the un-Believer is his close relative).
13. No Believer will help an un-Believer against a Believer.
14. Protection (when given) in the Name of Allah will be common. The weakest among Believers may give protection (In the Name of Allah) and it will be binding on all Believers.
15. Believers are all friends to each other to the exclusion of all others.
16. Those Jews who follow the Believers will be helped and will be treated with equality. (Social, legal and economic equality is promised to all loyal citizens of the State).
17. No Jew will be wronged for being a Jew.
18. The enemies of the Jews who follow us will not be helped.
19. The peace of the Believers (of the State of Madinah) cannot be divided. (it is either peace or war for all. It cannot be that a part of the population is at war with the outsiders and a part is at peace).
20. No separate peace will be made by anyone in Madinah when Believers are fighting in the Path of Allah.
21. Conditions of peace and war and the accompanying ease or hardships must be fair and equitable to all citizens alike.
22. When going out on expeditions a rider must take his fellow member of the Army-share his ride.
23. The Believers must avenge the blood of one another when fighting in the Path of Allah (This clause was to remind those in front of whom there may be less severe fighting that the cause was common to all. This also meant that although each battle appeared a separate entity it was in fact a part of the War, which affected all Muslims equally).
24. The Believers (because they fear Allah) are better in showing steadfastness and as a result receive guidance from Allah in this respect. Others must also aspire to come up to the same standard of steadfastness.
25. No un-Believer will be permitted to take the property of the Quraysh (the enemy) under his protection. Enemy property must be surrendered to the State.
26. No un-Believer will intervene in favour of a Quraysh, (because the Quraysh having declared war are the enemy).
27. If any un-believer kills a Believer, without good cause, he shall be killed in return, unless the next of kin are satisfied (as it creates law and order problems and weakens the defence of the State). All Believers shall be against such a wrong-doer. No Believer will be allowed to shelter such a man.
28. When you differ on anything (regarding this Document) the matter shall be referred to Allah and Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace).
29. The Jews will contribute towards the war when fighting alongside the Believers.
30. The Jews of Bani Awf will be treated as one community with the Believers. The Jews have their religion. This will also apply to their freedmen. The exception will be those who act unjustly and sinfully. By so doing they wrong themselves and their families.
31. The same applies to Jews of Bani Al-Najjar, Bani Al Harith, Bani Saeeda, Bani Jusham, Bani Al Aws, Thaalba, and the Jaffna, (a clan of the Bani Thaalba) and the Bani Al Shutayba.
32. Loyalty gives protection against treachery. (loyal people are protected by their friends against treachery. As long as a person remains loyal to the State he is not likely to succumb to the ideas of being treacherous. He protects himself against weakness).
33. The freedmen of Thaalba will be afforded the same status as Thaalba themselves. This status is for fair dealings and full justice as a right and equal responsibility for military service.
34. Those in alliance with the Jews will be given the same treatment as the Jews.
35. No one (no tribe which is party to the Pact) shall go to war except with the permission of Muhammed (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). If any wrong has been done to any person or party it may be avenged.
36. Any one who kills another without warning (there being no just cause for it) amounts to his slaying himself and his household, unless the killing was done due to a wrong being done to him.
37. The Jews must bear their own expenses (in War) and the Muslims bear their expenses.
38. If anyone attacks anyone who is a party to this Pact the other must come to his help.
39. They (parties to this Pact) must seek mutual advice and consultation.
40. Loyalty gives protection against treachery. Those who avoid mutual consultation do so because of lack of sincerity and loyalty.
41. A man will not be made liable for misdeeds of his ally.
42. Anyone (any individual or party) who is wronged must be helped.
43. The Jews must pay (for war) with the Muslims. (this clause appears to be for occasions when Jews are not taking part in the war. Clause 37 deals with occasions when they are taking part in war).
44. Yathrib will be Sanctuary for the people of this Pact.
45. A stranger (individual) who has been given protection (by anyone party to this Pact) will be treated as his host (who has given him protection) while (he is) doing no harm and is not committing any crime. Those given protection but indulging in anti-state activities will be liable to punishment.
46. A woman will be given protection only with the consent of her family (Guardian). (a good precaution to avoid inter-tribal conflicts).
47. In case of any dispute or controversy, which may result in trouble the matter must be referred to Allah and Muhammed (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), The Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) of Allah will accept anything in this document, which is for (bringing about) piety and goodness.
48. Quraysh and their allies will not be given protection.
49. The parties to this Pact are bound to help each other in the event of an attack on Yathrib.
50. If they (the parties to the Pact other than the Muslims) are called upon to make and maintain peace (within the State) they must do so. If a similar demand (of making and maintaining peace) is made on the Muslims, it must be carried out, except when the Muslims are already engaged in a war in the Path of Allah. (so that no secret ally of the enemy can aid the enemy by calling upon Muslims to end hostilities under this clause).
51. Everyone (individual) will have his share (of treatment) in accordance with what party he belongs to. Individuals must benefit or suffer for the good or bad deed of the group they belong to. Without such a rule party affiliations and discipline cannot be maintained.
52. The Jews of al-Aws, including their freedmen, have the same standing, as other parties to the Pact, as long as they are loyal to the Pact. Loyalty is a protection against treachery.
53. Anyone who acts loyally or otherwise does it for his own good (or loss).
54. Allah approves this Document.
55. This document will not (be employed to) protect one who is unjust or commits a crime (against other parties of the Pact).
56. Whether an individual goes out to fight (in accordance with the terms of this Pact) or remains in his home, he will be safe unless he has committed a crime or is a sinner. (i.e. No one will be punished in his individual capacity for not having gone out to fight in accordance with the terms of this Pact).
57. Allah is the Protector of the good people and those who fear Allah, and Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) is the Messenger of Allah (He guarantees protection for those who are good and fear Allah).
• Hanan:
On December 30, 1066 (9 Tevet 4827), a Muslim mob stormed the royal palace in Granada, which was at that time in al-Andalus, assassinated Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela and massacred most of the Jewish population of the city. Assuming that vizier was a culprit of evil, why should those Muslim massacre almost all Jews of Granada? If there is a single Muslim terrorist among a group, should we kill the whole group?
Me: Hanan…those are from Richard James Horatio Gottheil (1862—1936) was an American Semitic scholar and Zionist & Meyer Kayserling (born in Hanover, June 17, 1829; died at Budapest, April 21, 1905) was a German rabbi and historian.
And here is the statement from Bernard Lewis (born May 31, 1916 in London, England) is a British-American historian, Orientalist, and political commentator:-
"the massacre is usually ascribed to a reaction among the Muslim population against a powerful and ostentatious Jewish vizier."
Lewis writes:
Particularly instructive in this respect is an ancient anti-Semitic poem of Abu Ishaq, written in Granada in 1066. This poem, which is said to be instrumental in provoking the anti-Jewish outbreak of that year, contains these specific lines:
Do not consider it a breach of faith to kill them, the breach of faith would be to let them carry on.
They have violated our covenant with them, so how can you be held guilty against the violators?
How can they have any pact when we are obscure and they are prominent?
Now we are humble, beside them, as if we were wrong and they were right!
Lewis continues: "Diatribes such as Abu Ishaq's and massacres such as that in Granada in 1066 are of rare occurrence in Islamic history."
Lewis's latest book "Islam: The Religion and the People", is a useful primer for those who are new to this topic. From his research, Lewis draws the following conclusions regarding the modern menace of Middle-Eastern terrorism:(Pages 145-150 of the book):
1. "At no time did the (Muslim) jurist approve of terrorism. Nor indeed is there any evidence of the use of terrorism (in Islamic tradition)."
2. "Muslims are commanded not to kill women, children, or the aged; not to torture or otherwise ill-treat prisoners; to give fair warning of the opening of hosilities;and to honor agreements."
3. "The emergence of the now widespread terrorism practice of suicide bombing is a development of the 20th century. It has no antecedents in Islamic history, and no justification in terms of Islamic theology, law, or tradition. It is a pity that those who practice this form of terrorism are not better acquainted with their own religion, and with the culture that grew up under the auspices of that religion."
4. "The fanatical warrior offering his victims the choice of the Koran or the sword is not only untrue, it is impossible."
5. "Generally speaking, Muslim tolerance of unbelievers was far better than anything available in Christendom, until the rise of secularism in the 17th century."
The episode has been characterized as a pogrom. Walter Laqueur (Walter Zeev Laqueur (born 26 May 1921) is an American historian and political commentator) writes, "Jews could not as a rule attain public office (as usual there were exceptions), and there were occasional pogroms, such as in Granada in 1066."
• Hanan:
You said Muslims may discriminate Jews. Why do you say “may”? This is because you refuse to be convinced that Muslims are practicing discrimination according to their faith and Quran. Jews discrimination by Muslims is not racism? Muslims discrimination economically by NEP of the Malaysian minorities is not racism? When a minister says that the Malaysian Chinese are “guests” in Malaysia while they are Malaysian born for at least several generations, is not racism?
Me: Hanan…read the Quran again and again and again, and compare it with the Talmud (The Talmud is a record of rabbinic discussions pertaining to Jewish law, ethics, customs, and history. It is a central text of mainstream Judaism.) As for the Malaysian part, come visit us.
• Hanan:
The destiny of Jews and other religious minorities in Muslim countries is similar and depending very much the “good will” of the government at the particular time. There is a time minorities are flourishing and times they are depressed. There are some minorities that are flourishing despite depression like Jews during their living in the Diaspora.
I know that those words are hard to accept, but those are facts.
Me: Read Lewis point 5.
• Hanan:
May be it is you and many others who say that it is a territorial war. But when you ask the Palestinians and particularly Hamas, they claim it is a holy war for the Muslim land of Palestine which is a Waqf asset.
Me: It’s a holy/ righteous war for the Palestinian Muslim, it’s a territorial war in my view. It’s a righteous war for every citizen who fights to defense their land.
• Hanan:
From where Jews spread over Europe, Asia and Africa before Islam was even born? Did they arrive from the moon? Did they arrive from another planet? Don’t you think that they were living in one place before they arrived to their new places? Where was that place?
Me: Same goes to all other races…all whiteman can claim England. All Chinese can claim China, all Indian can claim India and so on. Owh, and Malay can claim, Singapore, Indonesia, Philippine because it’s in the Malay Archipelago.
• Hanan:
What is more wondering is the “generosity” of Muslims that knew that the Land of Israel was once Jewish, but when they conquered that land they didn’t even think to tell the Jews: “Oh Jews, come back to your home from where you have been expelled by force. There are no Romans anymore. You may come back to your homes and live your life in your homeland”.
Me: Hanan...Jerusalem is considered Islam's third holiest city after Mecca and Medina. Among Muslims of an earlier era, it was referred to as al-Bayt al-Muqaddas; later, it became known as al-Quds al-Sharif. In 638, the Islamic Caliphate extended its dominion to Jerusalem. With the Arab conquest, Jews were allowed back into the city. The Rashidun caliph Um
Helo all and dear Lou Ma,
To prove something, why not Malaysia just spare one wilayah/negeri for Jews and prove to Jews we are not inhumane like them, then we talk equal, ok? agree?
You see any Jews in Saudi Arabia now? Before Islam, yes there are plenty, like Bani Israel in Saudi soil, now? None.
kepada saudara aqilfithri,
apakah yg saudara cuba sampaikan di sini?
kesal saya membacanya.. saya bersetuju dgn niat baik Dr. M tp sedihnya pelaksanaannya tidak begitu berkesan.. kenapa?? ini kerana tiada sokongan yg padu dpd rakyat.. semua kesusahan dijadikan alasan..
Today I read in The Star Online about Hamas getting angry that Israel has changed their negotiation officer and that Hamas wants to change 1,400 Palestian prisoners for 1 Israel soldier/officer. I am getting a bit fedup with this Hamas. Do they not realize the innocents Palestinian souls being killed because of their actions? I believe all Israel women, children and old people should be given refugee status and be moved out immediately from Palestine. Other compassionate countries should take them in temporarily Malaysia included until the war and unrest can be sorted out and subsides.
Salam sejahtera TUN,
Perjanjian Daging/Fizikal
Disisi lain, kita juga harus melihat keberadaan Israel di dalam cara pandang yang objective sejajar dengan nubuatan Firman Tuhan mengenai mereka, positif mahupun negatif.
Bila kita hanya mengikuti kecendrungan untuk melihat mereka dari sisi yang positif secara nubuatan, kita akan kehilangan banyak pengertian penting yang berkaitan dengan Israel dan status mereka di hadapan Elohim, juga otoriti mereka di bumi ini.
Firman Tuhan cukup banyak menggambarkan keberadaan orang Isreal di akhir zaman secara negatif dimana penyesatan-penyesatan terjadi atas mereka, okultisme telah masuk kedalam ibadah-ibadah mereka dan juga dimana mereka akan mengambil alih kepimpinan dunia dalam seluruh jalur kehidupan manusia di bumi ini melalui lahirnya seorang pemimpin dunia, Antikris.
Salah satu unsur penting untuk mengerti bangsa Isreal secara lebih dekat adalah pengetahuan tentang posisi mereka sebagai umat yang terikat di dalam ikatan perjanjian Daging/Fizik (Flesh/material Covenant) Perjanjian Manusia.
Pengertian ini akan membawa kita kepada suatu ketentuan utama Tuhan yang hanya berlaku keatas orang Yahudi. Prinsip tersebut lahir kerana ikatan perjanjian, iaitu bahawa seluruh bumi ini berada dibawah otoriti Yahudi.
Orang Yahudi telah menjadi waris Elohim kerana statusnya sebagai "anak" Elohim secara daging/fizik, Sehingga apa yang di wariskan Tuhan kepada mereka adalah semua keberadaan fizik(material), baik yang terlihat mahupun yang tidak terlihat yang ada dibumi ini.
Prinsip ini adalah ketentuan hukum Elohim yang secara tegas di nyatakan oleh Tuhan di dalam Kitab Ulangan 32 di mana seluruh bumi dibagi menjadi 12 wilayah dan setiap wilayah di beri nama setiap suku Isreal. Pemberian nama atas suatu wilayah bererti penyerahan otoriti keatas wilayah tersebut.
Kerana hanya mereka yang terikat perjanjian material dengan Tuhan, maka hanya mereka juga yang berhak atas warisan fizik Elohim.
Kita dapat membandingkan keberadaan kita (Gereja Tuhan) yang terikat perjanjian spiritual dengan Tuhan, yang mewarisi segala sesuatu yang spiritual dimuka bumi ini, semua otoriti spiritual dibumi ini telah di wariskannya kepada "anak" Elohim secara Roh, iaitu gereja-Nya berada jauh lebih mulia kerana didasari oleh janji-janji yang lebih tinggi (Ibrani 8:6)
Prinsip yang terlihat (material) adalah sementara, manakala yang tidak terlihat (spiritual) adalah bersifat kekal (2 Korintus 2:18) dapat memberi gambaran lebih jelas mengenai kualiti hubungan kita dengan Tuhan.
Fakta bahawa nubuat Kitab Suci adalah Ya dan Amin dapat kita lihat di hujung akhir zaman ini.
Bahawa semua penguasaan dunia, tak kira itu politik, sosial,teknologi, kewangan/ekonomi, bahkan strategi dan peralatan ketenteraan (antara yang tercanggih didunia) dan agama-agama dunia dikuasai dan dikendalikan oleh Yahudi sebagai pemegang otoriti bumi.
Untuk memboikot barangan mereka mungkin, mustahil tahukah anda bahawa bahan galian berharga dibawah Laut Mati melebihi kekayaan USA dan seluruh Eropah jika digabungkan sesuai dengan nubuatan dalam Kitab Suci negeri itu dipenuhi susu dan madu.
Persiapan Armageddon!
Kekuatan peralatan ketenteraan Israel setakat ini sangat menakutkan jika dibandingkan dengan negara Arab dan sekutunya jauh ketinggalan 20 tahun kebelakang. Bom yang dilancarkan ke palestin itu hanya mercun-mercun yang biasa dimainkan masa Tahun baru cina.
Disini posisi Amerika syarikat dan juga Uni Eropah adalah sebahagian daripada keberadaan Yahudi (melalui peta penyebaran/diaspora Yahudi kita akan mendapatkan gambaran lengkap bahawa USA & Eropah, juga sebahagian Russia, adalah "keturunan" dari 10 suku Israel yang "hilang" sejak ribuan tahun).
Ini juga merupakan penjelasan mengenai mengapa Rasul Paulus yang diutus hanya di wilayah Asia kecil padahal ia memegang mandat Tuhan untuk memberitakan injil Keselamatan atas bangsa-bangsa. (the gentiles)
Dengan pengatahuan ini kita akan mengerti mengapa iblis-iblis dan setan-setannya (dalam hirarkhi-hirarkhi puncaknya) memakai orang Yahudi (bukan the gentiles) sebagai alat untuk menguasai dunia. Bahkan Antikris yang akan muncul juga di pastikan sebagai keturunan Yahudi, dan bukan dari bangsa-bangsa lain yang jelas tidak memiliki otoriti phisik atas bumi menurut hukum Elohim.
As a Muslim we know that the day will come where we will once again rule the world. This is definite. I hope Hanan will witness this if he's still around.
We also know that the Palestine problem will never be solved. What going on now is just a side effect of the current crisis.
This will be solved once we rule the world. There are evidence that we are getting there. In the UK, Muslim continuously become prominent. More Muslim babies are born and this will out-numbered non-Muslim. Else where the same phenomenon is also happening.
The time will come.
Insya-Allah.
TUN,
PLEASE DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ON THIS ANYMORE. IT IS SO CLEAR THAT HANAN IS SO STUPID.
WHILE YOU SAID ABOUT NO MUSLIM INVITED TO A CONFERENCE IN ISRAEL, HE MENTION ABOUT A CONFERENCE IN AUSTRALIA.
MAYBE HE THINK THAT HE IS NOW IN AUSTRALIA.
SOOO STUPID.
Salam Tun,
Please allow me to clear certain statement made by our friend Hanan. Before I go to that I just wonder if Hanan is a true Jew (by means of Judaism) or a Messianic Jew.
Peace on to you Hanan,
Jews and Islam/Muslim are supposed to be closer with each other (in our concept of one God, both doesn’t accept idolatry, both practice circumcision, Jew with the kosher system while Islam with the halal system, both performs qurban – where animal is ritually slaughtered and many more).
And I also been told that a Jew can pray in mosque if there is no synagogue but cannot do the same in church because they consider Christians as an idol worshipper.
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• Hanan:
May be it is true but not 100% of all the facts. Yes, in some cases Jewish life flourished under Muslim governing, but it was centuries ago at the beginning of Islam and during its spreading. Let me provide some Jewish life under Muslims governing and among Muslims. Living of Jews in Muslim countries must not be related to the Israeli-Palestinian problem; not by time and not by location. This is according to what Muslims claim as their justice and fairness to minorities including Jews. Here is a “brief” summary about the problems/riots against Jews in different countries which I collected to enlighten the knowledge of all: (read Hanan Feb 22, 2009 6:15AM)
Me: Hanan…when it comes to fairness of Muslim you want to narrow the time line. It is because Jews previous and continuing (track back how whole world treated the Jews) action that makes later Muslim to treated Jews as they are now. You gave a great detail how the Jews were treated by Muslim in those countries, please give us all detail how European treat Jews.
• Hanan:
As far as I know prophet Mohammed massacred the Jewish tribe Banu Quraiza. Why did he that? Why did he accept massacring all surrendering men that were already fettered? Where is the mercy of the prophet upon surrendering prisoners?
Me: Again… please give us detail how European treats Jews. Instead you want to harbor hatred by twisting the question by our Tun.
Pls Hanan, don’t twist the fact. Read the Medina Charter (below), mind you that’s this ‘document’ was made during the time of war & the document was drawn up with the explicit concern of bringing to an end the bitter inter tribal fighting between the clans. It is also concluded a covenant and a truce with the Jews, confirmed them in their religion and their property, and imposed obligations on them and guaranteed them certain rights. Alas, the Jewish tribe, 1 by 1 became treacherous and negotiated with Meccan (enemy) forces to revolt against Muhammad. Owh by the way, there was fighting in Yathrib (Medina) mainly involving its Arab and Jewish inhabitants for around a hundred years before.
Medina Charter/Constitution of Medina
1. This is a document from Muhammad the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), governing relations between the Believers i.e. Muslims of Quraysh and Yathrib and those who followed them and worked hard with them. They form one nation - Ummah.
2. The Quraysh Mohajireen will continue to pay blood money, according to their present custom.
3. In case of war with any body they will redeem their prisoners with kindness and justice common among Believers. (Not according to pre-Islamic nations where the rich and the poor were treated differently).
4. The Bani Awf will decide the blood money, within themselves, according to their existing custom.
5. In case of war with anybody all parties other than Muslims will redeem their prisoners with kindness and justice according to practice among Believers and not in accordance with pre-Islamic notions.
6. The Bani Saeeda, the Bani Harith, the Bani Jusham and the Bani Najjar will be governed on the lines of the above (principles)
7. The Bani Amr, Bani Awf, Bani Al-Nabeet, and Bani Al-Aws will be governed in the same manner.
8. Believers will not fail to redeem their prisoners they will pay blood money on their behalf. It will be a common responsibility of the Ummat and not of the family of the prisoners to pay blood money.
9. A Believer will not make the freedman of another Believer as his ally against the wishes of the other Believers.
10. The Believers, who fear Allah, will oppose the rebellious elements and those that encourage injustice or sin, or enmity or corruption among Believers.
11. If anyone is guilty of any such act all the Believers will oppose him even if he be the son of any one of them.
12. A Believer will not kill another Believer, for the sake of an un-Believer. (i.e. even though the un
Salam Tun,
Please allow me to clear certain statement made by our friend Hanan. Before I go to that I just wonder if Hanan is a true Jew (by means of Judaism) or a Messianic Jew.
Peace on to you Hanan,
Jews and Islam/Muslim are supposed to be closer with each other (in our concept of one God, both doesn’t accept idolatry, both practice circumcision, Jew with the kosher system while Islam with the halal system, both performs qurban – where animal is ritually slaughtered and many more).
And I also been told that a Jew can pray in mosque if there is no synagogue but cannot do the same in church because they consider Christians as an idol worshipper.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
• Hanan:
May be it is true but not 100% of all the facts. Yes, in some cases Jewish life flourished under Muslim governing, but it was centuries ago at the beginning of Islam and during its spreading. Let me provide some Jewish life under Muslims governing and among Muslims. Living of Jews in Muslim countries must not be related to the Israeli-Palestinian problem; not by time and not by location. This is according to what Muslims claim as their justice and fairness to minorities including Jews. Here is a “brief” summary about the problems/riots against Jews in different countries which I collected to enlighten the knowledge of all: (read Hanan Feb 22, 2009 6:15AM)
Me: Hanan…when it comes to fairness of Muslim you want to narrow the time line. It is because Jews previous and continuing (track back how whole world treated the Jews) action that makes later Muslim to treated Jews as they are now. You gave a great detail how the Jews were treated by Muslim in those countries, please give us all detail how European treat Jews.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
• Hanan:
As far as I know prophet Mohammed massacred the Jewish tribe Banu Quraiza. Why did he that? Why did he accept massacring all surrendering men that were already fettered? Where is the mercy of the prophet upon surrendering prisoners?
Me: Again… please give us detail how European treats Jews. Instead you want to harbor hatred by twisting the question by our Tun.
Pls Hanan, don’t twist the fact. Read the Medina Charter (below), mind you that’s this ‘document’ was made during the time of war & the document was drawn up with the explicit concern of bringing to an end the bitter inter tribal fighting between the clans. It is also concluded a covenant and a truce with the Jews, confirmed them in their religion and their property, and imposed obligations on them and guaranteed them certain rights. Alas, the Jewish tribe, 1 by 1 became treacherous and negotiated with Meccan (enemy) forces to revolt against Muhammad. Owh by the way, there was fighting in Yathrib (Medina) mainly involving its Arab and Jewish inhabitants for around a hundred years before.
Medina Charter/Constitution of Medina
1. This is a document from Muhammad the Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), governing relations between the Believers i.e. Muslims of Quraysh and Yathrib and those who followed them and worked hard with them. They form one nation - Ummah.
2. The Quraysh Mohajireen will continue to pay blood money, according to their present custom.
3. In case of war with any body they will redeem their prisoners with kindness and justice common among Believers. (Not according to pre-Islamic nations where the rich and the poor were treated differently).
4. The Bani Awf will decide the blood money, within themselves, according to their existing custom.
5. In case of war with anybody all parties other than Muslims will redeem their prisoners with kindness and justice according to practice among Believers and not in accordance with pre-Islamic notions.
6. The Bani Saeeda, the Bani Harith, the Bani Jusham and the Bani Najjar will be governed on the lines of the above (principles)
7. The Bani Amr, Bani Awf, Bani Al-Nabeet, and Bani Al-Aws will be governed in the same manner.
8. Believers will not fail to redeem their prisoners they will pay blood money on their behalf. It will be a common responsibility of the Ummat and not of the family of the prisoners to pay blood money.
9. A Believer will not make the freedman of another Believer as his ally against the wishes of the other Believers.
10. The Believers, who fear Allah, will oppose the rebellious elements and those that encourage injustice or sin, or enmity or corruption among Believers.
11. If anyone is guilty of any such act all the Believers will oppose him even if he be the son of any one of them.
12. A Believer will not kill another Believer, for the sake of an un-Believer. (i.e. even though the un-Believer is his close relative).
13. No Believer will help an un-Believer against a Believer.
14. Protection (when given) in the Name of Allah will be common. The weakest among Believers may give protection (In the Name of Allah) and it will be binding on all Believers.
15. Believers are all friends to each other to the exclusion of all others.
16. Those Jews who follow the Believers will be helped and will be treated with equality. (Social, legal and economic equality is promised to all loyal citizens of the State).
17. No Jew will be wronged for being a Jew.
18. The enemies of the Jews who follow us will not be helped.
19. The peace of the Believers (of the State of Madinah) cannot be divided. (it is either peace or war for all. It cannot be that a part of the population is at war with the outsiders and a part is at peace).
20. No separate peace will be made by anyone in Madinah when Believers are fighting in the Path of Allah.
21. Conditions of peace and war and the accompanying ease or hardships must be fair and equitable to all citizens alike.
22. When going out on expeditions a rider must take his fellow member of the Army-share his ride.
23. The Believers must avenge the blood of one another when fighting in the Path of Allah (This clause was to remind those in front of whom there may be less severe fighting that the cause was common to all. This also meant that although each battle appeared a separate entity it was in fact a part of the War, which affected all Muslims equally).
24. The Believers (because they fear Allah) are better in showing steadfastness and as a result receive guidance from Allah in this respect. Others must also aspire to come up to the same standard of steadfastness.
25. No un-Believer will be permitted to take the property of the Quraysh (the enemy) under his protection. Enemy property must be surrendered to the State.
26. No un-Believer will intervene in favour of a Quraysh, (because the Quraysh having declared war are the enemy).
27. If any un-believer kills a Believer, without good cause, he shall be killed in return, unless the next of kin are satisfied (as it creates law and order problems and weakens the defence of the State). All Believers shall be against such a wrong-doer. No Believer will be allowed to shelter such a man.
28. When you differ on anything (regarding this Document) the matter shall be referred to Allah and Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace).
29. The Jews will contribute towards the war when fighting alongside the Believers.
30. The Jews of Bani Awf will be treated as one community with the Believers. The Jews have their religion. This will also apply to their freedmen. The exception will be those who act unjustly and sinfully. By so doing they wrong themselves and their families.
31. The same applies to Jews of Bani Al-Najjar, Bani Al Harith, Bani Saeeda, Bani Jusham, Bani Al Aws, Thaalba, and the Jaffna, (a clan of the Bani Thaalba) and the Bani Al Shutayba.
32. Loyalty gives protection against treachery. (loyal people are protected by their friends against treachery. As long as a person remains loyal to the State he is not likely to succumb to the ideas of being treacherous. He protects himself against weakness).
33. The freedmen of Thaalba will be afforded the same status as Thaalba themselves. This status is for fair dealings and full justice as a right and equal responsibility for military service.
34. Those in alliance with the Jews will be given the same treatment as the Jews.
35. No one (no tribe which is party to the Pact) shall go to war except with the permission of Muhammed (may Allah bless him and grant him peace). If any wrong has been done to any person or party it may be avenged.
36. Any one who kills another without warning (there being no just cause for it) amounts to his slaying himself and his household, unless the killing was done due to a wrong being done to him.
37. The Jews must bear their own expenses (in War) and the Muslims bear their expenses.
38. If anyone attacks anyone who is a party to this Pact the other must come to his help.
39. They (parties to this Pact) must seek mutual advice and consultation.
40. Loyalty gives protection against treachery. Those who avoid mutual consultation do so because of lack of sincerity and loyalty.
41. A man will not be made liable for misdeeds of his ally.
42. Anyone (any individual or party) who is wronged must be helped.
43. The Jews must pay (for war) with the Muslims. (this clause appears to be for occasions when Jews are not taking part in the war. Clause 37 deals with occasions when they are taking part in war).
44. Yathrib will be Sanctuary for the people of this Pact.
45. A stranger (individual) who has been given protection (by anyone party to this Pact) will be treated as his host (who has given him protection) while (he is) doing no harm and is not committing any crime. Those given protection but indulging in anti-state activities will be liable to punishment.
46. A woman will be given protection only with the consent of her family (Guardian). (a good precaution to avoid inter-tribal conflicts).
47. In case of any dispute or controversy, which may result in trouble the matter must be referred to Allah and Muhammed (may Allah bless him and grant him peace), The Prophet (may Allah bless him and grant him pea
Dear Tun,
Thats why i respect you so much..
I'd be happy if most of the posters here that claim that israel doesn't want peace, lay out their plan of peace and we'll compare it to the plan the palestinians rejected in 2001 by then-PM Ehud Barak. you'll be surprised by the results...
Jews always claimed that our prophet massacred Jews (Banu Qurayza)in Medina. They never say why? For every killing there must be a reason.In Gaza,Lebanon,Iraq,Afghanistan etc.....what's important is the REASON. Let's read this............(quite long....so I dont want to write a long comment just yet)
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The Banu Qurayza (Arabic: بني قريظة; بنو قريظة alternate spellings include Quraiza, Qurayzah, Quraytha, and the archaic Koreiza) were a Jewish tribe who lived in northern Arabia until the 7th century, at the oasis of Yathrib (now known as Medina).
Jewish tribes reportedly arrived in Hijaz in the wake of the Jewish-Roman wars and introduced agriculture, putting them in a culturally, economical and politically dominant position. However, in 5th century, the Banu Aws and the Banu Khazraj, two Arab tribes that had arrived from Yemen, gained dominance. When these two tribes became embroiled in conflict with each other, the Jewish tribes, now clients or allies of the Arabs, fought on different sides, the Qurayza siding with the Aws.
In 622, the Islamic prophet Muhammad arrived at Yathrib from Mecca and reportedly established a compact between the conflicting parties. While the city found itself at war with Muhammad's native Meccan tribe of the Quraysh, tensions between the growing numbers of Muslims and the Jewish communities mounted.
In 627, when the Quraysh and their allies besieged the city in the Battle of the Trench, the Qurayza entered into (eventually inconclusive) negotiations with the besiegers. Subsequently, the tribe was charged with treason and besieged by the Muslims. The Banu Qurayza eventually surrendered and all the men, apart from a few who converted to Islam, were beheaded, while the women and children were enslaved.
History in pre-Islamic Arabia
Early history
Extant sources provide no conclusive evidence whether the Banu Qurayza were ethnically Jewish or Arab converts to Judaism. Just like the other Jews of Yathrib, the Qurayza claimed to be of Israelite descent and observed the commandments of Judaism, but adopted many Arab customs and intermarried with Arabs. They were dubbed the "priestly tribe" (kahinan in Arabic from the Hebrew kohanim). Ibn Ishaq, the author of the traditional Muslim biography of Muhammad, traces their genealogy to Aaron and further to Abraham but gives only eight intermediaries between Aaron and the purported founder of the Qurayza tribe.
In the 5th century CE, the Qurayza lived in Yathrib together with two other major Jewish tribes: Banu Qaynuqa and Banu Nadir. Al-Isfahani writes in his 10th century collection of Arabic poetry that Jews arrived in Hijaz in the wake of the Jewish-Roman wars; the Qurayza settled in Mahzur, a wadi in Al Harrah. The 15th century Muslim scholar Al-Samhudi lists a dozen of other Jewish clans living in the town of which the most important one was Banu Hadl, closely aligned with the Banu Qurayza. The Jews introduced agriculture to Yathrib, growing date palms and cereals, and this cultural and economic advantage enabled the Jews to dominate the local Arabs politically. Al-Waqidi wrote that the Banu Qurayza were people of high lineage and of properties, "whereas we were but an Arab tribe who did not possess any palm trees nor vineyards, being people of only sheep and camels." Ibn Khordadbeh later reported that during the Persian domination in Hijaz, the Banu Qurayza served as tax collectors for the shah.
Account of the king of Himyar
Ibn Ishaq tells of a conflict between the last Yemenite King of Himyar and the residents of Yathrib. When the king was passing by the oasis, the residents killed his son, and the Yemenite ruler threatened to exterminate the people and cut down the palms. According to Ibn Ishaq, he was stopped from doing so by two rabbis from the Banu Qurayza, who implored the king to spare the oasis because it was the place "to which a prophet of the Quraysh would migrate in time to come, and it would be his home and resting-place". The Yemenite king thus did not destroy the town and converted to Judaism. He took the rabbis with him, and in Mecca, they reportedly recognized Kaaba as a temple built by Abraham and advised the king "to do what the people of Mecca did: to circumambulate the temple, to venerate and honor it, to shave his head and to behave with all humility until he had left its precincts." On approaching Yemen, tells Ibn Ishaq, the rabbis demonstrated to the local people a miracle by coming out of a fire unscathed and the Yemenites accepted Judaism.
Arrival of the Aws and Khazraj
The situation changed after two Arab tribes named Banu Aws and Banu Khazraj arrived to Yathrib from Yemen. At first, these tribes were clients of the Jews, but toward the end of the 5th century CE, they revolted and became independent. Most modern historians accept the claim of the Muslim sources that after the revolt, the Jewish tribes became clients of the Aws and the Khazraj. William Montgomery Watt however considers this clientship to be unhistorical prior to 627 and maintains that the Jews retained a measure of political independence after the Arab revolt.
Eventually, the Aws and the Khazraj became hostile to each other. They had been fighting possibly for around a hundred years before 620 and at least since 570s. The Banu Nadir and the Banu Qurayza were allied with the Aws, while the Banu Qaynuqa sided with the Khazraj. There are reports of the constant conflict between Banu Qurayza and Banu Nadir, the two allies of Aws, yet the sources often refer to these two tribes as “brothers”. Aws and Khazraj and their Jewish allies fought a total of four wars. The last and bloodiest altercation was the Battle of Bu'ath, the outcome of which was inconclusive.
The Qurayza appear as a tribe of considerable military importance: they possessed large numbers of weaponry, as upon their surrender 1,500 swords, 2,000 lances, 300 suits of armor, and 500 shields were later seized by the Muslims. Kister notes that these quantities are "disproportionate relative to the number of fighting men" and conjectures that the "Qurayza used to sell (or lend) some of the weapons kept in their storehouses". He also mentions that the Qurayza were addressed as Ahlu al-halqa ("people of the weapons") by the Quraysh and notes that these weapons "strengthened their position and prestige in the tribal society".
Arrival of Muhammad
The continuing feud between the Aws and the Khazraj was probably the chief cause for several emissaries to invite Muhammad to Yathrib in order to adjudicate in disputed cases. Ibn Ishaq recorded that after his arrival in 622, Muhammad established a compact, the Constitution of Medina, which committed the Jewish and Muslim tribes to mutual cooperation. The nature of this document as recorded by Ibn Ishaq and transmitted by Ibn Hisham is the subject of dispute among modern historians, many of whom maintain that this "treaty" is possibly a collage of agreements, of different dates, and that it is not clear when they were made. Watt holds that the Qurayza and Nadir were probably mentioned in an earlier version of the Constitution requiring the parties not to support an enemy against each other.
Aside from the general agreements, the chronicles by Ibn Ishaq and al-Waqidi contain a report that after his arrival, Muhammad signed a special treaty with the Qurayza chief Ka'b ibn Asad. Ibn Ishaq gives no sources, while al-Waqidi refers to Ka’b ibn Malik of Salima, a clan hostile to the Jews, and Mummad ibn Ka’b, the son of a Qurayza boy who was sold into slavery in the aftermath of the siege and subsequently became a Muslim. The sources are suspect of being against the Qurayza and therefore the historicity of this agreement between Muhammad and the Banu Qurayza is open to grave doubt. Among modern historians, R. B. Serjeant supports the historicity of this document and suggests that the Jews knew "of the penalty for breaking faith with Muhammad". On the other hand, Norman Stillman argues that the Muslim historians had invented this agreement in order to justify the subsequent treatment of the Qurayza. Watt also rejects the existence of such a special agreement but notes note that the Jews were bound by the aforementioned general agreement and by their alliance to the two Arab tribes not to support an enemy against Muhammad. Serjeant agrees with this and opines that the Qurayza were aware of the two parts of a pact made between Muhammad and the Jewish tribes in the confederation according to which "Jews having their religion and the Muslims having their religion excepting anyone who acts wrongfully and commits crime/acts treacherously/breaks an agreement, for he but slays himself and the people of his house."
During the first few months after Muhammad's arrival in Medina, the Banu Qurayza were involved in a dispute with the Banu Nadir: The more powerful Nadir rigorously applied Lex talionis against the Qurayza while not allowing it being enforced against themselves. Further, the blood money paid for killing a man of the Qurayza was only half of the blood-money required for killing a man of the Nadir, placing the Qurayza in a socially inferior position. The Qurayza called on Muhammad as arbitrator, who delivered the surah 5:42-45 and judged that the Nadir and Qurayza should be treated alike in the application of lex talionis and raised the assessment of the Qurayza to the full amount of blood money.
Tensions quickly mounted between the growing numbers of Muslims and Jewish tribes, while Muhammad found himself at war with his native Meccan tribe of the Quraysh. In 624, after his victory over the Meccans in the Battle of Badr, Muhammad expelled the Banu Qaynuqa from Medina. The Qurayza remained passive during the whole Qaynuqa affair, apparently because the Qaynuqa were historically allied with the Khazraj, while the Qurayza were the allies of the Aws.
Soon afterwards, Muhammad came into conflict with the Banu Nadir. He had one of the Banu Nadir's chiefs, the poet Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, assassinated and after the Battle of Uhud accused the tribe of treachery and plotting against his life and expelled them from the city. The Qurayza remained passive during this conflict, according to R. B. Serjeant because of the blood money issue related above.
Battle of the Trench
In 627, the Meccans, accompanied by tribal allies among whom were Abyssinian mercenaries as well as the Banu Nadir - who had been very active in supporting the Meccans - marched against Medina - the Muslim stronghold - and laid siege to it. It is unclear whether or not their treaty with Muhammad, obliged the Qurayza help him defend Medina or merely to remain neutral, according to Ramadan, they had signed an agreement of mutual assistance with Muhammad. The Qurayza did not participate in the fighting - according to David Norcliffe, because they were offended by attacks against Jews in Muhammad's preaching - but lent tools to the town's defenders. According to Al-Waqidi, the Banu Qurayza helped the defense effort of Medina by supplying spades, picks, and baskets for the excavation of the defensive trench the defenders of Medina had dug in preparation. According to Watt, the Banu Qurayza "seem to have tried to remain neutral" in the battle but later changed their attitude when a Jew from Khaybar persuaded them that Muhammad was sure to be overwhelmed and though they did not commit any act overtly hostile to Muhammad, according to Watt, they entered into negotiations with the invading army.
Ibn Ishaq writes that during the siege, the Qurayza readmitted Huyayy ibn Akhtab, the chief of the Banu Nadir whom Muhammad had exiled and who had instigated the alliance of his tribe with the besieging Quraysh and Ghatafan tribes. According to Ibn Ishaq, Akhtab persuaded the Qurayza chief Ka'b ibn Asad to help the Meccans conquer Medina. Ka'b was, according to Al-Waqidi's account, initially reluctant to break the contract and argued that Muhammad never broke any contract with them or exposed them to any shame, but decided to support the Meccans after Huyayy had promised to join the Qurayza in Medina if the besieging army would return to Mecca without having killed Muhammad. Ibn Kathir and al-Waqidi report that Huyayy tore into pieces the agreement between Ka'b and Muhammad.
Rumors of this one-sided renunciation of the pact spread and were confirmed by Muhammad's emissaries, Sa'd ibn Mua'dh and Sa'd ibn Ubadah, leading men of the Aws and Khazraj respectively. Sa'd ibn Mua'dh reportedly issued threats against the Qurayza but was restrained by his colleague. As this would have allowed the besiegers to access the city and thus meant the collapse of the defenders' strategy, Muhammad "became anxious about their conduct and sent some of the leading Muslims to talk to them; the result was disquieting." According to Ibn Ishaq, Muhammad ordered Nuaym ibn Masud, an well-respected elder of the Ghatafan who had secretly converted to Islam, to go to Muhammad's enemies and sow discord among them. Nuaym went to the Qurayza and advised them to join the hostilities against Muhammad only if the besiegers provide hostages from among their chiefs. He then hurried to the invaders and warned them that if the Qurayza asked for hostages, it is because they intended to turn them over to the Medinan defenders. When the representatives of the Quraysh and the Ghatafan came to the Qurayza, asking for support in the planned decisive battle with Muhammad, the Qurayza indeed demanded hostages. The representatives of the besiegers refused, breaking down negotiations and resulting in the Banu Qurayza becoming extremely distrustful of the besieging army. The Qurayza did not take any actions to support them until the besieging forces retreated. Thus the threat of a second front against the defenders never materialised.
Siege and surrender
On the day of the Meccans' withdrawal, Muhammad led his forces against the Banu Qurayza neighborhood. According to the Muslim tradition, he had been ordered to do so by the angel Gabriel. The Banu Qurayza retreated into their stronghold and endured the siege for 25 days. As their morale waned, Ka'b ibn Asad suggested three alternative ways out of their predicament: embrace Islam, kill their own children and women, then rush out for a charge to either win or die; or make a surprise attack on the Sabbath. The Banu Qurayza accepted none of these alternatives. Instead they asked to confer with Abu Lubaba, one of their allies from the Aws. According to Ibn Ishaq, Abu Lubaba felt pity for the women and children of the tribe who were crying and when asked whether the Qurayza should surrender to Muhammad, advised them to do so. However he also "made a sign with his hand toward his throat, indicating that [their fate] would be slaughter". The next morning, the Banu Qurayza surrendered and the Muslims seized their stronghold and their stores. The men - numbering between 400 and 900 - were bound and placed under the custody of Muhammad ibn Maslamah, who had killed Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, while the women and children - numbering about 1,000 - were placed under Abdullah ibn Sallam, a former rabbi who had converted to Islam.
Demise of the Banu Qurayza
The circumstances of the Qurayza's demise has been related by Ibn Ishaq and other Muslim historians. Since their accounts are contradictory, modern scholars have interpreted them differently:
According to Watt, Peters and Stillman, the Qurayza surrendered to Muhammad's judgement - a move Watt classifies as unconditional. The Aws, who wanted to honor their old alliance with the Qurayza, asked Muhammad to treat the Qurayza leniently as he had previously treated the Qaynuqa for the sake of Ibn Ubayy. (Arab custom required support of an ally, independent of the ally's conduct to a third party.) Muhammad then suggested to bring the case before an arbitrator chosen from the Aws, to which both the Aws and the Qurayza agreed to. Muhammad then appointed Sa'd ibn Mua'dh to decide the fate of the Jewish tribe.
According to Hashmi, Buchanan and Moore, the tribe agreed to surrender on the condition of a Muslim arbitrator of their choosing. According to Khadduri (also cited by Abu-Nimer), "both parties agreed to submit their dispute to a person chosen by them" in accordance with the Arabian tradition of arbitration.
Muir holds that the Qurayza surrendered on the condition that "their fate was decided by their allies, the Bani Aws".
In all accounts, the appointed arbitrator was Sa'd ibn Mua'dh, a leading man among the Aws. During the Battle of the Trench, he had been one of Muhammad's emissaries to the Quarayza (see above) and now was dying from a wound he had received later in the battle. When Sa'd arrived, his fellow Aws pleaded for leniency towards the Qurayza and on his request pledged that they would abide by his decision. He then pronounced that "the men should be killed, the property divided, and the women and children taken as captives". Muhammad approved of the ruling, calling it similar to God's judgment.
Sa'd dismissed the pleas of the Aws, according to Watt because being close to death and concerned with his afterlife, he put what he considered "his duty to God and the Muslim community" before tribal allegiance. Tariq Ramadan argues that Muhammad deviated from his earlier, more lenient treatment of prisoners as this was seen as "as sign of weakness if not madness" and Peterson concurs that the Muslims wanted to deter future treachery by severe punishment.
According to Stillman, Muhammad chose Sa'd so as not to pronounce the judgment himself after the precedents he had set with the Banu Qaynuqa and the Banu Nadir: "Sa`d took the hint and condemned the adult males to death and the hapless women and children to slavery." Furthermore, Stillman infers from Abu Lubaba's gesture that Muhammad had decided the fate of the Qurayza even before their surrender.
Ibn Ishaq describes the killing of the Banu Qurayza men as follows:
“ Then they surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, 'Will you never understand? Don't you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!' This went on until the apostle made an end of them. Huyayy was brought out wearing a flowered robe in which he had made holes about the size of the finger-tips in every part so that it should not be taken from him as spoil, with his hands bound to his neck by a rope. When he saw the apostle he said, 'By God, I do not blame myself for opposing you, but he who forsakes God will be forsaken.' Then he went to the men and said, 'God's command is right. A book and a decree, and massacre have been written against the Sons of Israel.' Then he sat down and his head was struck off. ”
Several accounts note Muhammad's companions as executioners, Ali and Al-Zubayr in particular, and that each clan of the Aws was also charged with killing a group of Qurayza men. Subhash Inamdar argues that this was done in order to avoid the risk of further conflicts between Muhammad and the Aws. According to Inamdar, Muhammad wanted to distance himself from the events and, had he been involved, would have risked alienating some of the Aws.
It is also reported, that alongside all the men, one woman who had thrown a millstone from the battlements during the siege and killed one of the Muslim besiegers, was put to death. Ibn Asakir writes in his History of Damascus that Banu Kilab, a clan of Arab clients of the Banu Qurayza, were killed alongside the Jewish tribe.
Three boys of the clan of Hadl, who had been with Qurayza in the strongholds, slipped out before the surrender and converted to Islam. The son of one of them, Muhammad ibn Ka'b al-Qurazi, gained distinction as a scholar. One or two other men also escaped.
The spoils of battle, including the enslaved women and children of the tribe, were divided up either upon the warriors that had participated in the siege or among the emigrees from Mecca (who had hitherto depended on the help of the Muslims native to Medina. Muhammad himself took a fifth of the value, as was customary among Muslims. As part of his share of the booty, Muhammad selected one of the women, Rayhana, and took her as part of his captives. She is said to have later become a Muslim. and Muhammad offered to free and marry her. According to some sources she accepted his proposal, while according to others she rejected it.
Some of the women and children of the Banu Qurayza were bought and sold by Jews ,in particular the Banu Nadir. Peterson argues that this is because the Nadir felt responsible for the Quarayza due to the role of their chieftain in the events.
Walid N. Arafat and Barakat Ahmad have disputed that the Banu Qurayza were killed on a large scale. Arafat disputes large-scale killings and argued that Ibn Ishaq gathered information from descendants of the Qurayza Jews, who embellished or manufactured the details of the incident. Ahmad argues that only some of the leaders of the tribe were killed, while some of the fighters were taken prisoners. Watt finds Arafat's arguments "not entirely convincing", while Meir J. Kister has contradicted the arguments of Arafat and Ahmad.
Analysis
The Qur'an briefly refers to the incident in Surah 33:26 and Muslim jurists have looked upon Surah 8:55-58 as a justification of the treatment of the Banu Qurayza, arguing that the Qurayza broke the pact with Muhammad, and thus Muhammad was justified in repudiating his side of the pact and declaring war on the Qurayza. Arab Muslim theologians and historians have either viewed the incident as "the punishment of the Medina Jews, who were invited to convert and refused, perfectly exemplify the Quran's tales of what happened to those who rejected the prophets of old" or offered a political explanation.
In the 8th and early 9th century Muslim jurists, such as Ash-Shafii, based their judgements and decrees about collective punishment for treachery on the accounts of the demise of the Qurayza, with which they were well acquainted. However, the proceedings of Muhammad with regard to the Banu Nadir and the Banu Qurayza were not taken as a model for the relationship of Muslim states toward its Jewish subjects.
Paret and Watt say that the Banu Qurayza were killed not because of their faith but for "treasonable activities against the Medinan community". Watt relates that "no important clan of Jews was left in Medina" but he and Paret also note that Muhammad did not clear all Jews out of Medina.
Aiming at placing the events in their historical context, Watt points to the "harsh political circumstances of that era" and argues that the treatment of Qurayza was regular Arab practice. Similar statements are made by Stillman, Paret, Lewis and Rodinson. On the other hand, Michael Lecker and Irving Zeitlin consider the events "unprecedented in the Arab peninsula - a novelty" and state that "prior to Islam, the annihilation of an adversary was never an aim of war." Similar statements are made by Hirschberg and Baron.
Source : Wikipedia
SALAM AYAHANDA RAKYAT TUN
IZINKAN,
By pakbelalangAuthor Profile Page on February 22, 2009 1:21 AM
... UMNO takkan buang terus anak jatinya walau macam mana "dajal" pun perangai anaknya. You add colour to UMNO politics !!
BRADER PAKBELALANG,
UMNO SHUD ACCEPT HIM WITH OPEN ARMS COZ AHLI YANG BERHORMAT DIPERAK YANG 'DENOUNCED' UMNO, MASUK PKR DAN LOMPAT BALIK KEKOLAM UMNO PUN BOLEH DITERIMA. INIKAN PULA 'DAJAL' YANG JADI YB BEBAS!
ALFATIHAH, AMIN
Dengan Izin Tun
Hanan..where’s your chronicle regarding Shabra and Shatilla? Still waiting..
Anyway..here my counter points to your points against Tun article.
1.Why should Muslims have so many independent Islamic republic and kingdoms and a single independent Jewish state on such small area is a big deal?
Why indeed..? Hanan…In the first place how does this ‘single independent Jewish state’ came about? How do you obtained it ?
Muslims agrees to it or you get it through your “Big Four Brothers”?…You won the muslims heart by referendum?
Cash and kind? How indeed?
2. It is another example of the displacement of an entire Jewish community from its ancient roots in the Arab countries
But why? They oppressed the Jew’s have they not? Cruel cruel Arab…But wait a minute..The Jew’s does not have a hand in the whole proccess from the beginning like treachery of covenant of any sort and kind?
It did happened that Rasullulah s.a.w. have to banish them from Madinah and later Umar Al Khattab banish them from the whole Arab Peninsular..You does not mentioned this…Are you ‘conveniently’ left this out or do you questioned Rasullah s.a.w and Khalifah Umar reasons too??
Do you think that Muslims are discriminated under the Zionist governing?
Which muslims breed? The ‘good’ muslim like Mahmoud Abbas..whom agrees to all your kind of conditions or the ‘bad’ muslim..like Ismail Haniyeh that does not agrees to your terms and conditions??
Everybody treats the one agrees with them nicely is well understood but Tun is the living example that he even treats the one that’s does not agrees with him still fairly.That’s true Islamic teaching…have you been noticing..?
3. As far as I know prophet Mohammed massacred the Jewish tribe Banu Quraiza. Why did he that? Why did he accept massacring all surrendering men that were already fettered? Where is the mercy of the prophet upon surrendering prisoners?
Those command came from Allah.Fullstop.Allah decreed those punishment for Banu Quraiza.Why?..You knew why..You just refused to admit the sanctity of those decree neither you believe Allah.We believe after Musa there is a sequence of Prophet.You don’t.That’s it all about actually.Your belief is diferrent from ours.So why we have this conversation? To accede and concede points…Instead you tried to belittle our belief!!
4. So how is it that you say it is not belonging also to the Jews? It is not written that this land belongs to Muslims or Palestinians.
Good one Hanan.I have to give it to you.But I repeat my questions…HOW DO YOU OBTAIN IT?????
6. Holy Temple where Jews were practicing their faith during their independent kingdoms?
What Jews practicing faith?? Do you realized that Jews under Moses is MUSLIM??? That is simple facts you refused to acknowledge…
7. In the Israeli Army we have Muslim soldiers and these soldiers are fighting against other Muslims in the so called the Jewish army.
That is not Muslim soldiers.Take this an example..Do you know Tun that in Malacca during the year 1511 liberation, we have Muslim Malays fighting along our side in the so called Peringgi army?
Those were all not Muslims..We called them infidel fighting along your side betraying our side.Twice the cruelty.
You perceieve them ‘have been enlightened’.We stated that they have been ‘murtad’!!! Your called Malacca liberation we called them colonilisation.Eh..it’s not you isn’t it? It was the Portuegese or it was your kind all along?...
9. Let me put my analogy understanding of that. The fact is that at the moment a few million of Jews are living in Israel. Why should Palestinians go to war to regain the land just because a minority of Arabs is living in Israel?
Oh dear Hanan…I thought you are so intelligent!!...What Tun was trying to says is..The British force our hand to cede our land to our neighbour’s..We were forced kneeling by their ‘Gunboat Diplomacy’..yet we does not resort to war for this loss of land and dignity..Referring to the Balfour Declaration…get it? Or you just merely playing the fool?
10. Accept any compromise plan they decide upon through a dialog?
Oh Hanan..How sweet of you…I draft those plan for Tun.
Now listen Palestinian..to have peace here is the condition..
1) Gun and weapons of all considerable firepower is no no…But we will maintained our arsenal.So if you get the idea of revolts against us we will shows you who is the master.
2) Baitul Maqdis will never be your’s.Not even in the wildest dream! We will maintain all our soldiers like in the present condition.
( What Hanan did not realize is the Jew’s are like red ants.Kerengga.Baitul Maqdis is the fruit needed by the Muslims.The Jew’s have no needs for this fruit but when Muslims came calling they bite them all over.How pathetic)
3) We will control all your infrastructure and administration too.No needs to construct anything.Just ask
us for any of your needs.( You are our prisoner.We shall do what we please )
I think it covers about everything …Don’t you agree Hanan..Read my eyes…!
11. I goat bloated reading Hanan points no 13.Tell me Hanan..where does Shabra and Shatilla fit in your story?
12. A wish for brotherhood.Very good Hanan..But what happens to the story of the birds of is it the frog that took across the scorpion across the river?
Scorpion : Take me across the river.
Frog : You will sting me and both of us will die in the midstream
Scorpion : I will surely not.
Frog :Ok.Hop on the back.( In the middle of stream ).Why do sting me? You have promised?
Scorpion : It is in my nature.
Both drowned in the middle of streams…Give peace a chance.Give the scorpion the chance.Will your nature shows your true color in the midstream???
May Allah open your third eyes…
WajaPerak…the foe and adversary of Jewish and Israeli Zionist.
Dengan Izin Tun..
Syabas Si kenit ( humble ).
Saya dah hantar bantahan saya kepada artikel Yahudi kononnya bijak tapi tak keluar..
Saya ulang lagi bahawa yang bijak adalah orang-orang mukmin.Mereka yang copy paste tu sebenarnya 'Pemalas'!!!
Jika mereka rajin menghayati Al quran maka mereka akan sedar bahawa orang-orang mukmin lah yang paling bijak..
Kisah Ashif Al Barkhiya yang dapat memindahkan Istana Ratu Balqis sebelum Nabi Sulaiman a.s mengkerdipkan mata Baginda,cukup jadi bukti..."seseorang yang mendapat ilmu dari kitab..menyanggupi untuk
memindahkan istana Ratu Balqis itu sebelum Baginda mengerdipkan matanya.."
Ilmu dari kitab.
Dan dari Surah Al Kahfi..tentang Nabi Khidir a.s " Salah seorang hamba yang mendapat ilmu langsung dari Kami (Allah )" Ilmu Ladunya
(Ilmu Laduni )
Ilmu langsung dari Allah.
Ilmu Orang-orang mukmin cukup hebat...Lihat kembali sejarah kita dan kita akan sedar bahawa ilmu yahudi itu tak kemana pun..
Saya ini orang yang bijak yang diakui kebijaksanaannya oleh Rasullulah s.a.w. maksudnya?
"Orang yang bijak itu ialah mereka yang banyak mengingati mati dan bersedia untuk menghadapinya"..
Saya orang bijak kerana saya banyak mengingati mati dan bersedia untuk menghadapinya...
Kenapa orang Yahudi bijak...? Mana ada...!!!!!
Dengan Izin Tun..
Syabas Si kenit ( humble ).
Saya dah hantar bantahan saya kepada artikel Yahudi kononnya bijak tapi tak keluar..
Saya ulang lagi bahawa yang bijak adalah orang-orang mukmin.Mereka yang copy paste tu sebenarnya 'Pemalas'!!!
Jika mereka rajin menghayati Al quran maka mereka akan sedar bahawa orang-orang mukmin lah yang paling bijak..
Kisah Ashif Al Barkhiya yang dapat memindahkan Istana Ratu Balqis sebelum Nabi Sulaiman a.s mengkerdipkan mata Baginda,cukup jadi bukti..."seseorang yang mendapat ilmu dari kitab..menyanggupi untuk
memindahkan istana Ratu Balqis itu sebelum Baginda mengerdipkan matanya.."
Ilmu dari kitab.
Dan dari Surah Al Kahfi..tentang Nabi Khidir a.s " Salah seorang hamba yang mendapat ilmu langsung dari Kami (Allah )" Ilmu Ladunya
(Ilmu Laduni )
Ilmu langsung dari Allah.
Ilmu Orang-orang mukmin cukup hebat...Lihat kembali sejarah kita dan kita akan sedar bahawa ilmu yahudi itu tak kemana pun..
Saya ini orang yang bijak yang diakui kebijaksanaannya oleh Rasullulah s.a.w. maksudnya?
"Orang yang bijak itu ialah mereka yang banyak mengingati mati dan bersedia untuk menghadapinya"..
Saya orang bijak kerana saya banyak mengingati mati dan bersedia untuk menghapainya...
Kenapa orang Yahudi bijak...? Peh...!!
Can readers contribute ideas on how to solve this problem ?
Dear Sir,
Regarding the issue at hand, I understand the message that is being put on the table, but let's put this in another perspective. Forget ethics and morality for now, and just consider the Israel state as a state in its own right. True, the very soil it is built on was the soil the Palestinians lived on previously. But that is history. The fact is that the Palestinians allowed the Israeli's to gain ground in the region and that Israelis have fought to protect this sliver of land they call their home. In my opinion, no one really owns any land. If one has the power to protect one's turf from foreign power's, that's his turf. The Israelis conquered and drove the Palestinians out due to the presence of substance and chance on the side of the Israelis coupled with ineptitude on the part of the Palestinians. Therefore, the argument involving 'ownership' of land, is in my eyes, ineffective. True, look at the world map and we see countries marked out with borders but these borders can, no, WILL change eventually depending on the governance of the country. And by borders, I do not mean simply visible ones, but cultural, financial and ideological. Superpowers started out as any country did, but it was the choices and decisions of individuals comprising those superpowers that rendered them powerful. Ultimately, what I am trying to say here is that Israel conquered and created their homeland by their own right, be it just or otherwise. So, why should they take Palestinian land? Because they have the ability to do so. And the Palestinians show little indication they are able to take it back. Call it bullying if you will, but if insubstantial words alone can truly change reality, why are you reading this in the first place?
When questioned regarding the disproportionate degree of casualties in the Gaza intrusion a few months back, Tzipi Livni, the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Israel argued that as a state, Israel had the right to protect itself and its citizens from harm. Forget this is Israel we are discussing here, and YOU are the head of state of a country, and a rockets are being fired into your homeland posing a risk to citizens. How would you respond? Give in? True, this does not justify the staggering number of casualties, but be realistic, given a choice, whose lives would you prioritize? Your citizens' or the other sides'. Human lives are indeed valuable, but employing a Battle-Royalesque approach, whereby morals and ideals mean nothing in the face of death and in this case, political suicide for Israeli politicians, a choice has to be made. And an obvious one at that. Its a cruel but harsh reality.
You talk of hatred of each other. A notion which is truly futile in my opinion. What is done is done. The ongoing aggression just serves as a bright flare highlighting the inability of both sides to look forward. To a certain extent, I feel that Israel has tried to do this, at least significantly more than their neighbors. However, a long lasting compromise is required. But as time wears on in the absence of one, people get frustrated and opt for 'alternative' solutions.
ASSALAMUALAIKUM AYAHANDA TUN...
JIKA DI FIKIR-FIKIR SAMPAI BILALAH BARU BUMI PALESTIN AKAN AMAN DARI SERANGAN DAN GANGGUAN YAHUDI...
DOA DAN HARAPAN SAYA, RAKYAT PALESTIN AKAN MENANG JUA PADA SUATU HARI NANTI.
JELAS DAN TERANG APA YANG BERLAKU DI PALESTIN INI ADALAH KERANA CAMPUR TANGAN DARI KUASA BESAR DUNIA YANG MELINDUNGI KUASA KECIL SEPERTI ISRAEL UNTUK TUJUAN KEGANASAN.
KALAU KEGANASAN YANG DI LAKUKAN YAHUDI SEMUANYA BETUL DAN BOLEH. MANAKALA APABILA ORANG ISLAM SEMUANYA SALAH DAN DI LABELKAN PENGANAS. SUNGGUH TIDAK ADIL...
MAKA FIKIR-FIKIRLAH APA YANG PATUT.
W A S S A L A M.
Hanan will be satisfied if Israel wipe out the entire Palestinian Race, maybe even Arabs and all Muslims.
To those who are looking forward to KHIAMAT, you may want to check out the date : 21st Dec 2012. Google this for more information. The end date of the Mayan Long Calendar count.
Ohhhh Hanan,
Your last comment prove that you have a twisted mind in history and facts and ofcoz, religion knowledge.
How many times in your comments, did u mentioned about the Jewish & Israel... Helloo...please clear your mind that ISRAEL is NOT JEWISH. JUDAISM HAS GOT NOTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL!! Period.
Moses never preach Judaism, and Judaism only being practice after the fall of the Kingdom of Israel. After the return from the Chaldeans.
Israelites are the decendants of Jacob.....and Abraham came before Israel/Jacob...and most of your 'Divine Books" relates Abraham with Judaism and Israelites. absaloute blasphemy!!
I beg u Hanan, please do not quote Israel, Judaism & Zionism in a same context.
Dear Muslims, again we are waisting our time arguing with Ashkenazi Jews. Their forefarther try to crucified The Messiah..remmember?
Altough Chritians do not believe with the prophethood of Muhammad, at least they have a better undertanding with Muslims.
Tun,
As I perused the various comments in this blog, I hope that you will continue to encourage more dialogs and the pursuit of knowledge and understanding amongst us Malaysians. It is chilling that some of us could find this interesting banter between you and Hanan a waste of time and in the process, close their minds and hearts to possibilities that could advance peace. I am reminded that some 70 years ago, an entire German nation was so "closed up" that they believed that whatever that they were doing was right. If we stop asking questions or seek to understand the position of others, we will risk being blind to the best decision making options and will surely rue to regret.
Best regards.
The Horseman
Hanan, being a jew as you claim you are, you will never admit you are wrong. But I know my dear che det is right. Still you choose not to understand whats been laid out with simple english by che det.
Your honesty are fake.
Dear Tun,
Very long literature replied by Hanan.
According to her, it is justifiable to take back the land which they claimed was theirs from thousand of years ago.
What about USA, what the red indian have to say about this.
The jews have a skewed perspective of what is right and wrong.
What is right and wrong is already translated to the law, and Israel have clearly violated the UN. It is plain simple as this.
If Israel zionist like this Hanan says that it is justified to expelled palestinian from their homeland because the land belong to them thousands of years ago and murder them, I think we should stop the dialog.
Hanan have replied that the Jews being mistreated in Muslim countries. He/She should not exclude the Christian countries in Italy, England, Spain. How many of them being tortured and killed in Spain and Italy.
The only way to solve this issue and to help the Palestinians is not to have a dialog with Israelis but spread the awareness widely to the world that that Israel have violated even the values uphold by the Western Countries. They are no better then the Nazi's that they despised.
William Shakespeare have written in play "The Merchant of Venice", depicting that the Jews are shrewd, twisted people and would want to trade human flesh with money. Why would Shakespeare, a famous and prominent English writer want to write about the Jews in this way.
As about quoting the Islamic Text. I think, like what Erdogan had quote from the Ten Commandment recently.
"Thou Shall Not Kill".
Assalammualaikum - Peace be upon you
Tun, Hanan and all readers of Chedet,
Logic and reason does not stand on its own. Logical and rational thinking has to depend on what we BELIEVE is true (or the truth) that surrounds the issue.
Unfortunately, Truth is relative. The truth the we believe is dependent on our views and perceptions. These views and perceptions are developed and strengthed by our upbringing, our religious conviction, our life experiences, our life's lessons, etc....Such that the truth is differrent from someone else.
Truth is relative to each and everyone of us. All of us see things,and see issues differently and it is most apparent with regards to the Isreal / Palestine issue.
It becomes a contention when we believe OUR truth to be MORE true than someone else's. Like Hanan believeing his truth to be MORE thru that Tun's and similarly Tun believeing your truth to be more true than Hanan's.
With this beliefs, we tend towards thinking that the other party is evil, bad or has bad intentions. When we do not actually know for sure what their intentions is?
It is therefore a noble person who can keep things in perspective and always assume that the other has good intentions - in malay its is "Jangan Buruk Sangka dan berprasangka buruk terhadap orang lain".
Our beloved Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has always reminded us on this. And most religious teaches us like wise.
To bring us closer to the REAL truth we are adviced to try as much as possible to PUT OURSELVES in the shoes of the others. To see what they see, feel what they feel, etc.. To ask or try to ascertain their real intentions and set aside what we thought is their intentions.
Being closer to the truth will allow us to make better decision and thus do good actions.
Another approach to solve problem of such nature where views and perceptions are at loggerhead - there can only be one approach.
That is to have a commonly agreed grand objective/goal - this objective/goal have been outlined by Tun in your previous posting.
An objective/goal shared by Isreal and Palestine plus all the nations who have influence to this conflict.
This objective can be summerises as "A LASTING PEACEFUL CO-EXISTANCE" which I am sure the people of Isreal and Palestian people are hankering for.
May GOD (ALLAH) grant the said people the WISDOM to act positively towards this commonly shared GRAND OBJECTIVE!!!
All Humans are brothers be they Isrealites, Malays, Indian, Chinese, Caucasians, Afghanistans, Africans, Arabs, Persians, etc...All brothers on this small planet earth - We must learn to live as ONE people.
Peace be upon us all.
Dear Tun,
From my observation on the internet and media, the zionists are trained to be in deniable mode 'till kingdom comes'. Therefore, I hope you will stop entertaining Hanan's rhetoric because it certainly does not serve any purpose.
Why not we take the necessary steps:
1) Ban all Israeli products and encourage import of alternatives.
2) Blacklist all known zionists and their cronies to ensure that they don't enter Malaysia.
I'm sure there could be more retaliatory measures but hopefully my suggestions could be seriously considered.
Hi Tun,
A lot has been said and done to illustrate your points to Hanan and others which may have little effects somehow.
May i suggest that a blockbuster movie been scripted & produced based on all the messages and facts that you had illustarted in writing. Staring western famed and respected movie stars such as Clint Eastwood, Brad Pitt, Angelina Jolie, etc...
The story line can goes like...." a couple so much in love in palestine had managed to be blessed with a new born. Their lifes together has been peacefull, loving and fun until one fine day the husband has been killed during an Israel sudden attack. Her injured son has also suffered death after being denied medical services due to blockages set up by Israel. The surviying wife gone thru lots of miserable situation and helpless moments until she decided to participate in terrorist program and blow up her self at enemy's compound..."
The focus, emotion and viewer's perspective shall orignate from the surviving wife so much as to deliver the highest level of sympathy and understanding as to why she would want to blow up her self.
We shall all strongly agree somehow that movies, drama and media had managed to shape people's believe and thinking like how holywood had done successfully thus far.
Many parts of the world population had been shown the same movies from the attacking nation's perspective. I think its high time a blockbuster is produced from the palestine citizen's perspective which i strongly believe shall gather the supports from millions of viewers after the premier nite.
All profit from the movie can be re-invested back into making more such moview to educate the masses...
Salam kasih dan hormat Ayahanda Tun.
Dua perkara saya nak komen kali ini.
1) Saya tersangat bersetuju dengan seperti apa ucapan yang Ayahanda telah perkatakan di London berkenaan dengan sikap bank-bank yang suka membuat duit dengan mengikis semua hak-hak pengguna. “Maximum profit attitude” mereka ini mesti dihentikan dengan segera. Jangan lagi para eksekutif bank hidup mewah dan “flamboyant” diatas keringat pelanggan mereka sendiri. Ini tidak adil dan ianya adalah sesuatu yang patut dihentikan. Kesedaran pada peringkat pengguna akan sedikit sebanyak membendung sindrom ini. Sikap sana tutuh sini tutuh mereka perlu dihentikan segara.
2) Saya telah berkali-kali memerhatikan rakan komentar saya Pak Pandir “beradoi” Aduh!! sana, Aduh!! sini kebelakangan ini. Sebenarnya saya amat bersimpati dengan si Keadilan Pak Pandir ini. Dan saya berharap beliau akan cepat melakukan sesuatu tentang masalah buasir (bawasir) beliau itu sebelum ianya akan membontotkan kehadiran beliau disini. Seteru maka seteru jugalah, tetapi peri kemanusian tetap diatas. Mungkin kerana keadaan kegawatan ketika ini menyukarkan beliau juga, oleh itu saya harap sebagai seorang Doktor bertauliah dan terlatih, Tun akan tulis “free prescription” untuk ubat buasir disini. Saya tak tahu, bukan doktor, jika tidak saya dah pasti tulis Tun.
Sekian dulu Tun. Terima kasih dan wassalam.
Salam Tun and all dear bloggers,
I am back to add more comments and make this comment list even longer. But one thing is for sure - ISRAEL is but just a piece of land to be so-called the homestate of the Jews. But beware, the Jews are everywhere occupying the four corners of the world since time immemorial. They are already infiltrating the mind, body and spirit of the ummah of this world Muslim or non-Muslim. Had they not been mass-masacred through the Holocust by Hitler's Nazi, they would have overpopulated this entire planet.
I agree with M Hussain Kamil. So now my dear blogger friends, beware and build up, strengthen and reinforce our own personal self-defence, i.e. our jati diri as a not only Muslim but the free people of this world.
Salam hormat.
P/S : Tun, what's your take on the latest episode in the Perak drama vis-a-vis Mr Sivakumar the Speaker "hanging the state assembly" against the backdrop of the March 2009 Persidangan UMNO and Pak Lah-Najib Handover The Movie? heheheehe...
Here's my opinion of your statements by numbers
1. I certainly don't know what did Hanan said, but I certainly know that you do not represent the "whole world"
2. Well, to TRULY know the problems Jews face in Muslim countries, you have to ask them, listen, and read the news. You can't presume that there's absolute 'without any serious problem'.
3. It doesn't take the Holocaust to happen in Muslim countries to give a bad reputation to Muslim countries. Example: If Muslims in Indonesia were to support the acts of Osama bin Laden who's responsible for the destruction of the WTC, it certainly gives a bad image to Americans and non-Jihad believers. Discrimination by Muslims against Jews does not make it sound better that any genocide. Are you actually suggesting that we should justify something 'bad' as 'better' than something 'worst'?
4. When I saw the banner below your name in this blog, I truly admire your efforts to criminalize war. Therefore, I invite you, and all the readers to condemn all forms of violence. Whether the violence come from Israel, or Hamas, war will only end in bloodshed unless one of them stops and both agree in peaceful ways. If you are a true believer in making war a crime, you'll condemn Hamas as much as you condemn Israel not for their religious background or the reason they fight for, but for the bloodshed both of them have caused to innocent lifes.
5. "I agree with you on this statement."
6. "I agree with you on this statement."
7. History is a great teacher for many of us as there are many things we can learn from our pass mistakes. However, what you're doing here is to use History to paint a bad picture of the Jews. It is undeniable that wars happened in the past, but to use that knowledge to incite hatred defeats the purpose learning History in the first place, and that is to prevent future wars.
8. Homeland? Are you suggesting that migration should never happen? What you're asking here is that the people of this world should have their rights to be on other places on Earth to be stripped away. If you're going to condemn the migration of Jews to Palistin, then you should condemn the migration of extremist Muslims into UK.
9. "We should really go to war to regain our land especially as there are Malays living there.". What happened to your ideals of criminalizing war? To me, land is only useful if put in the right hands. Land should not be distributed freely solely based on the colour of our skin.
10. Peace, in my opinion, also includes racial equality, in which Malaysia lacks.
11. It goes both ways.
12. That is when everything becomes biased.
13. Whatever destruction Israeli or Hamas has caused, both are very distasteful.
14. It goes the same with Jihad.
15. As long as hatred exist, there will be war. And when there's war, there'll be casualties. And that will instill more hatred. So, I invite all those who which to criminalize war to start loving each other.
16. The will to go on fighting with violence does not make any war shorter, it will prolong the war with more violence. I suggest a more evolved manner with diplomacy.
17. Kill one man, that's murder. Kill thousands, that's genocide. But none of that is any 'better' than the other.
18. See number 16.
19. See number 16.
20. No comment.
Salam Tun,
Isu berkenaan Yahudi@Israel ini tidak ada gunanya di bicara panjang lebar.
Sebagai umat Islam sememangnya kita tahu Bangsa Yahudi adalah satu bangsa yang akan hidup dengan melakukan segala jenayah dan pengkhianatan kepada umat manusia terutama yang beragama Islam.
Adalah bermenaafat untuk kita mengadakan demonstrasi,perhimpunan, forum dan lain-lain lagi yang mengutuk negara arab yang kaya raya tetapi tidak bersatu untuk membela rakyat Palestin yang di tindas oleh Yahudi.
Negara Arab yang kaya raya ini jugalah yang bersubahat dan berkerjasama untuk memberi ruang yang seluas-luasnya pada Yahudi@Israel untuk terus menerus mengganas dan membunuh rakyat Palestin.
Samy Vellu urged to make way for new blood
BUTTERWORTH: MIC president Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu should seriously reconsider his decision to defend his post and make way for new blood.
Gerakan national vice-president Huan Cheng Guan, who made the call yesterday, said it would be wiser for Samy Vellu, who has been heading the party for three decades, to change his role to that of an adviser to MIC rather than defend his post.
Stressing that he was not trying to meddle in MIC's internal affairs, Huan said it was time for the veteran leader to step down.
"But I have to say this for the sake of the Indian community and to give ample time for his successor to regain the support of Indian voters for the 13th general election.
"Otherwise, MIC will not be able to contribute towards a Barisan Nasional victory in the election process," he said, after opening the SK St Mark's Parent-Teacher Association annual general meeting here yesterday.
Huan said he had to bring up the matter as Indians in MIC claimed that they had lost their voice in the party and that power was centralised in the Central Working Committee which was controlled by Samy Vellu.
"Based on the feedback I gathered from the grassroots, the Indians want to see a change in the MIC top leadership, otherwise they will continue to distance themselves from the party."
Huan said the re-branding exercise initiated by MIC after the March 2008 general election would be a waste of time as long as Samy Vellu remained the party's president.
comment:
Yes, yes, yes! Syabas, Mr Huan Cheng Guan. We hear you loud and clear except Samy Vellu who is still "blind, deaf and dumb" and continue to be in a state of denial.
Other than Pak Lah, Samy Vellu is also partly to be blamed for causing BN to lose miserably in the last election. That is a fact and we just cannot deny it.
MIC is also in the same boat as UMNO. There are a lot of deadwood leaders who are no more relevant to lead the two parties. If members of these two parties do not change their leadership and political culture then I would say BN won't be able to gain confidence among the rakyat. GROUND ZERO !!
As for MCA, I think with their new leadership it is now in good hand and it is up to the Chinese to evaluate whether they would revert to support MCA again or still comfortable to remain on the other side of the camp. It makes no difference. The Chinese are just like "lalang". They are very practical people. NO MONEY NO LOYALTY ATTITUDE.
As for MIC, the Indians have no choice but to continue support MIC. Make no mistake about it.But the stumbling block is Samy Vellu who have overstayed their welcome as President. Th majority of the Indians are already tired of Samy's antics. So the Indians made their silence protest by favouring PKR but unfortunately they never realise that they have been made as "donkey" by Anwar Ibrahim to promote his personal ambition to be Prime Minister.
Now we really want to watch how UMNO would fare in its quest for "CHANGE". To what extent their members are able to get rid of their "sombong, bongkak and tak sedar diri" leaders come this March UMNO election. If they fail to clean up the party from "money poltics culture" then the whole coalition government of Barisan Nasional would fall like "Humpty Dumpty had a great fall".
Dear Tun,
I think we must understand the most important parameter of the equation here.
Which is America. Israel can do and will anything they like as long as America is behind them.
They are building settlement at this moment to prove this point.
The Arab countries are also puppets of America.
I think, maybe one of the approaches should be equating Israel with the Nazi. This maybe will change the sentiments of other nations as well as the citizen of the America that the Nazi and Zionist Israel are in fact very much similar.
We should also remember the holocaust that happen in Palestine and dedicate a day for remembrance.
New bishop to boost unity and tolerance
KUALA LUMPUR: The new head of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Malaysia promises to forge greater inter-religious tolerance and understanding between the different faiths in the country.
comment:
Hopefully the Hindu priests and Muslim imams and ustaz having the same attitude. Don't let religious extremism exists in our multi-racial society. These religious extremists are "ugly" people that could cause havoc like the Hindraf group and other Muslims deviationist groups like the Al-Arkam group.These groups are nuisance to society.
Hardcore poor: Penang CM blames it on technical problem
S. Arulldas
PENANG, SUN:
Penang Chief Minister Lim Guan Eng admitted the state will not be able to abolish hardcore poor by March due to technical problems.
comment:
Hey Eng Guan, what exactly are the technical problems? You have the answers. Please be specific in your statement. The Penangites have the right to know since you are now having the privilege of having access to numerous imformation as Chief Minister of Penang. Don't hide your weakness in administering the state by giving superficial excuses.
Party struggle comes first
ALOR STAR: Wanita Umno head Tan Sri Rafidah Aziz and her deputy-turned-rival Datuk Seri Shahrizat Jalil agreed yesterday that the contest for the wing's top post will not divide its members.
The two also pledged to accept the results of the wing's elections next month and to reunite the members after the party polls.
Rafidah said members are free to choose their leaders and she was confident that the delegates were "mature" enough to make the right choice.
"I will leave it to the delegates, but we have to remember, Wanita Umno places the party's struggle as its highest priority," she said at a gathering of candidates for Wanita Umno's executive committee posts here.
comment:
Yes, Rafidah what you said is very true. UMNO places party's struggle as its highest priority. But most of the UMNO leaders including yourself "cakap tak serupa bikin". Hypocrisy of the first order.
Rafidah, let me remind you if you are still "khayal" that you have overstayed your welcome as Wanita Chief. It is time for you to reliquish your position and gracefully hand over it to Sharizat without having to contest. Barulah cantik. Apa lagi yang nak di kejar.
Berehat je lah tunggu sampai "nyanyuk" dan jadi nenek kebayan !!! kah, kah, kah !!
Jamaludin pulls out of Umno V-P race
By : Farrah Naz Karim
Datuk Seri Dr Jamaludin Jarjis
KUALA LUMPUR: Former minister Datuk Seri Dr Jamaludin Jarjis has dropped out of the race for one of the three vice-president's posts in Umno.
He has instead decided to contest a seat in the party's supreme council, saying that he was confident he could still help bring changes to the party.
comment:
You are not a VP material, JJ, not even fit to be a Supreme Council member.
Your integrity is questionable.Rumours were riped saying that you really abused your position when you were Chairman of TNB.
You are not that clean after all. If I am the perwakilan I won't consider you even for the Supreme Council member.
Izinkan Tun,
//By pakpandir08 on February 19, 2009 11:32 PM
why nowadays, people commonly label "BeeAnn" is hypocrite?
khir toyo urge elizaberth to quit becoz she is immoral, becoz her nude foto is taken when she is sleeping
Mohd Suffian said that in 2007, he complaint to Khir Toyo about the "affair" of his wife with gombak ex-YB, with evidence included voice recording, video clip, photo and sms ... however, Khir Toyo did not take any action, but urge Suffian to settle his family matter himself ... even Suffian made report for 9 times, but no action is taken ... and his wife nor hayati is appointed in the assembly list last year ...
when asking for explaination from Khir Toyol, he gave the following comments:
(1) the 2 cases are not the same, and that's the reason why he did not take any action last time towards nor hayati
(2) In elizabert case, she admits the photo and make police report. In nor hayati case, she did not admit the photo
(3) Additionally, in nor hayati case, it is family problem. Hence, he dont have the right to take action
Aduhh !!! ... the level of hypocrite is so disgusting ... similar to some pembodek like HBT//
Hi macha pandir,
First of all I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your compliment to label me as "pembodek" Tun Mahathir, a wise man in the world who Mr Hanan, an Israeli, agreed. I am very much delighted to get this "gelaran" from you, this prove that I am wise in my decision for choosing to "bodek" Tun.
Since Tun is a wise man, and you always downgrading Tun in his weblog, what "gelaran" should I offer you in return for your kindness. Hm... gelaran "Kow Si Kuan" (in cantonese means pengacau seperti "sebatang kayu yang digunakan untuk mengacau tahi orang" - maaf Tun for these harsh words because I cannot think of any better "gelaran" for him because he likes to provoke emotion secara buta-tuli, thus smelly dan dirty.
If I were to compare Khir Toyo and Elizabeth Wong, I should say Toyo is smarter (means low moral) and less emotional (means disgusting) than Elizabeth. Yes, I agreed with you on the level of hipocrite in Toyo. If you never tell me the story of his personal affair with Nor Hayati, I will never know because I never bother to read any news on Toyo because he is a crook. You guys have labelled him as the "Khinzir Toyo" in the website, which shows that your level of morality is similar to Toyo, but there is one thing about Toyo that you can never undestand is that no matter what he did, there are some malays still supporting him.
In terms of hypocrite, you are so..... much better off than me. Do you know why? Because I memorized and practice the raw meaning of our 5 rukun negara, do you do this to keep your level of hypocrite lower in our beloved country? Chinese says, if you eat here, please don't sh.t here, is hypocrite and low moral.
Nevetheless, macha, I welcome you to attack me in cyberspace (weblog) and waiting for your reply.
Good day Tun.
Rgds,
"Chat Hai Poh" (Mak Bodek)
Salam Tun,
To Hanan,
I think now you should understand why majority of the bloggers dislike and do not trust Israel (Jews), especially the muslims. I believe Arabs are not afraid of Israel, but they are cautios of USA and the G7 because they have learned their lessons from cold war initiated by USA (the G7)and Rusia.
Malaysians are lucky because our Tun Dr Mahathir (our Ex-PM) is sincere in protecting the country and willing to share his know how, experiences and ways to fight this territory war with brains and hearts peacefully without causing invasion, riots, starvation injustice, skilled greed, skilled fear and skilled power to overcome the conflict of Israel and Palestine which indeed will affect the world politic and economic landscapes that will affect our tiny country named Malaysia.
I feel sorry for the Israelis and Palestinians because they are made to be the scapegoats by America and her alliances (the rich and powerful G7 countries which include German) to retain their power through military force in the name of democracy. The G 7 can never understand the raw democracy and power because they are taught to use brains without heart to see and undestand things and issues in their life, and they will never understand the "Confucious teaching of China and Islamic teaching. To them, any teachings that are go against them are named as terrorists, enemies or criminals.
I always heard Bush made press statements by ending his speach "God Saves America", he never mentioned "Jesus Christ" Saves America. Why did Jews trusted him. In the past 5 years after Bush invaded Iraq by force due to greed (oil ownership), it had created the fear in Palestine that one day Palestine will be conquered by Israel like Iraq in which 1.25 million Iraqis have died so far. Thus, to show their love and protection for the country, they have declared terrorism through primitive weapons to make sure Israel does not rob their land by force using sef-sacrificing method, can Jews do this? I doubt so because you people have live in the world of luxury and power on other people's blood (on their dead bodies). This is the reason why I never want to be rich like these people because I do not want myself and my generations to be the "Mo Kuei" (satan or syaitan), thus I joined KL Foundation To Criminalize War because of raw humanity and justice.
If you have a chance to compare the pictures caused by the Palestine Hamas and the Israel force, you will understand mankind can be cruel and uncivilized because of greed, wealth and power regardless your nationality, race and religion.
Good Day Tun.
P/S: Tun has wrote a letter to advice Mr Bush to deal with the War on Terror after 9/11 with open heart and mind so that his name will be termed as good president in history. He kept numb on this issue because to him, if talking about history, everyone will be dead then. I am wondering did Mr Bush understand the meaning of goodwill that will bring goodwill and peace in USA and the world. I believe he did not understand until today and will never accept the fact that he has made USA the enemy to the world, if he did, he will be willingly to be trial on his wrong and fake decisions in bring down the late Saddam Hussiein. Because of Mr Bush's arrogant and ignorant (stupidity), the Americans now believe that "anyone can grow up to become the President of USA" because Mr Bush has proved that "nerd" like him can be the President. He has indeed damaged the goodwill struggled by his ancestors for 100 years in just 8 years of his presidency, poor Bush family and Americans!!!
Salam Tun,
To Hanan,
I think now you should understand why majority of the bloggers dislike and do not trust Israel (Jews), especially the muslims. I believe Arabs are not afraid of Israel, but they are cautios of USA and the G7 because they have learned their lessons from cold war initiated by USA (the G7)and Rusia.
Malaysians are lucky because our Tun Dr Mahathir (our Ex-PM) is sincere in protecting the country and willing to share his know how, experiences and ways to fight this territory war with brains and hearts peacefully without causing invasion, riots, starvation injustice, skilled greed, skilled fear and skilled power to overcome the conflict of Israel and Palestine which indeed will affect the world politic and economic landscapes that will affect our tiny country named Malaysia.
I feel sorry for the Israelis and Palestinians because they are made to be the scapegoats by America and her alliances (the rich and powerful G7 countries which include German) to retain their power through military force in the name of democracy. The G 7 can never understand the raw democracy and power because they are taught to use brains without heart to see and undestand things and issues in their life, and they will never understand the "Confucious teaching of China and Islamic teaching. To them, any teachings that are go against them are named as terrorists, enemies or criminals.
I always heard Bush made press statements by ending his speach "God Saves America", he never mentioned "Jesus Christ" Saves America. Why did Jews trusted him. In the past 5 years after Bush invaded Iraq by force due to greed (oil ownership), it had created the fear in Palestine that one day Palestine will be conquered by Israel like Iraq in which 1.25 million Iraqis have died so far. Thus, to show their love and protection for the country, they have declared terrorism through primitive weapons to make sure Israel does not rob their land by force using sef-sacrificing method, can Jews do thi
Dear Crocodog,
The Arabs cannot stay together because there is too much schism between them ie Shia, Sunnis, Wahhabis etc etc.
Getting UMNO members over won't help when war-hardened Palestinians themselves could not do the job. Don't count on GOD too otherwise this mess would have been cleared ages ago.
Dear All Readers,
Read ROBERT FISK's THE GREAT WAR FOR CIVILISATION / THE CONQUEST OF THE MIDDLE EAST for a greater insight into related topics.
salam tun and all,
PEDULI APA KALAU YAHUDI BIJAK?
1. saya ada terbaca beberapa entry yang lalu Tun mendapat komen dari seseorang yang memberikan maklumat tentang amalan-amalan Yahudi yang kononnya menjadi sebab kenapa bangsa Yahudi begitu bijak.
2. Amat menyedihkan apabila orang-orang kita begitu terpesona dengan maklumat tersebut sehingga ramailah yang berlumba-lumba meng`copy' dan `paste' maklumat tersebut dan disebarkan ke emel rakan-rakan muslim untuk dikongsi.
3. Persoalannya, kenapa begitu terpesona? Kenapa ghairah dengan maklumat itu? Adakah kerana ingin bijak seperti yahudi?
4. Kita semua tahu betapa angkuhnya sifat yahudi, tetapi masih begitu mudah kita terpedaya? Adakah timbul dalam hati kita keinginan untuk menjadikan anak-anak kita pandai maka kita sekarang ingin mencuba resipi kebijaksaan Yahudi?
5. tuan-tuan dan puan-puan, bacalah al-qur`an, kajilah hadith. Tuan-tuan dan puan-puan akan dapati begitu banyak amalan-amalan baik dalam kedua-duanya yang sangat wajar jadi ikutan.
6. Kalimah Laa ilaha Illallah Muhammadur Rasulullah adalah kalimah iman dan kalimah amal. Bersaksi bahawasanya Tiada Tuhan yang selayaknya disembah melainkan Allah, dan bahawasanya Muhammad itu Pesuruh Allah : Meyakini bahawa hanya Allah yang Maha berkuasa, semua makhluk adalah fana di sisiNya, dan Bahawasanya Hanya dengan Cara hidup, amalan dan pemikiran Baginda Rasulullah SAW sahajalah yang menjanjikan kejayaan untuk kita didunia dan akhirat.
7. Bagi seorang Muslim, jika ada walau sekelumit dalam hati kita was-was terhadap Allah SWT, maka bimbang sungguh kalau-kalau gugr syahadah kita.
8. Dan jika walau sedikit pun dalam hati kita terdetik bahawa cara Baginda Rasulullah SAW adalah tidak sebaik cara orang lain, maka bimbang sunguh-sunguh membimbangkan, takut jatuh juga akidah kita kerana Baginda adalah Rasul pilihan, insan pilihan, manusia maksum kekasih ALlah SWT- wajarkah diragui tentang Baginda?
9. Saya bangkitkan hal ini bukan kerana apa-apa, hanya hati menjadi sayu dan timbul juga rasa hiba melihat keadaan sekarang apabila ramai yang terpesona dengan artikel Yahudi bijak.
10. Rasulullah SAW tak bijak kah? Adakah kita tahu, Baginda anjurkan makan buah-buahan dahulu sebelum menjamah makanan yang lebih berat? baginda anjurkan makan buah kurma ketika berbuka? Baginda suka minum susu, Baginda larang makan dan minum sambil berdiri, Baginda anjurkan makan dan minum dengan tangan kanan, Baginda makan dalam keadaan berjemaah, dan banyak lagi adab makan Baginda SAW, tetapi kita tahukah? dan yang lebih penting, kita amal atau tidak sunnah Baginda itu?
11. Masalah kita ialah kita tak tahu, dan kalau tahu pun, banyak yang kita tak amal. Kenapa?
12. Adakah kita nak tunggu ada kajian-kajian dan penemuan-penemuan sains yang membuktikan kelebihan makan dan minum dengan tangan kanan baru kita nak amalkan cara itu? Adakah kita nak tunggu ada penemuan-penemuan tentang makan dan minum sambil duduk baru kita nak berhenti makan dn minum sambil berdiri?
13. Betapa sejak sekian lama kita dimomokkan dengan etika di meja makan yang mengajar kita suap makan dengan garfu yang dipegang dengan tangan kiri. Betapa kita sejak sekian lama di ajar makan secara 'cocktail' yang gah dihias dengan berbagai hiasan sedang makan dan minumnya dibuat sambil berdiri dan berjalan-jalan : Walk and mix around : talk to other guests while eating with a small plate or a cup of tea in your hand...Mix business with pleasure!!
14. Begitulah bijaknya yahudi dan Nasrani, sedikit demi sedikit kita diajak mengikut cara hidup mereka, sehingga akhirnya apakah yang membezakan kita dengan mereka? Hilang luputlah amalan sunnah nabi SAW dan apabila diberitahu bahawa Nabi SAW makan dan minum sambil duduk, akan tersenyum sinislah puak-puak yang sudah terpesona dengan cara yahudi dan Nasrani ini. Sunnah Nabi dilabelkan kolot. Betapa kita mudah terpedaya.-
Sudah pastilah sunnah Nabi SAW bukan setakat dalam makan dan minum sahaja tetapi ini hanya sebagai satu contoh.
15. Umat Islam sangat apologetic tentang keimanan mereka, dan umat Islam sekarang begitu embarrassed untuk menghidupkan Sunnah Nabi SAW dalam kehidupan mereka. Maklumlah, Nabi seorang yang humble walau pun Baginda sebenarnya pembawa rahmat untuk seluruh alam. Sifat humble Nabi SAW amat menyentuh jiwa dan akhlak mulia Nabi SAW begitu mempesonakan sehingga jika dibaca sirah Baginda, berapa ramai yahudi yang memeluk Islam hanya berkat hidayat yang turun melalui akhlak mulia Baginda.
16. Akhir kalam, umat Islam sekarang ramai bak buih di lautan, tetapi kita lemah kerana tidak bersatu. Bagaimana hendak bersatu? Apabila kita hidupkan kembali Sunnah Baginda SAW dalam kehidupan kita. Maka, walau di mana atas bumi ini kita berada, walau siapa bangsa kita, Cara hidup kita akan serupa, Percakapan kita akan berkisar kepada perkara yang serupa, bermaksud serupa, buah fikiran akan serupa. Dan pada masa itu akan datanglah kekuatan kepada diri-diri kita sepertimana datang kekuatan dalam diri-diri para sahabat nabi radhiyallahu anhuma yang sangat sayangkan baginda dan menuruti jejak Baginda dengan bersungguh-sungguh.
17. Kepada rakan-rakan pembaca chedet sekelian, ayuh!!! Kenalilah Baginda Rsulullah SAW, cara hidup Baginda, penampilan Baginda dan fikiran Baginda dan hidupkanlah sunnah Baginda SAW dalam kehidupan kita. Pasti dan Pasti Kejayaan Dunia dan akhirat menjadi milik kita!
18. tak percaya? Cubalah dulu!!!
19. Tun, good entry as always. As the saying goes, you can take a horse to the stream, but you can't force it to drink.
20. Jaga diri Jaga solat Tun and all. I am not being apologetic here but just being polite, so I will end my comments this time round by saying, sorry to take up much space. What to say, I was smarting by the fifth email I got telling me why the Jews are so smart. I dont give a hoot why they are smart.
21. Al-KHawarizmi, Ibn Sina, Al-Farabi, Al- Kindi all are geniuses and Muslims. Care to study how they became smart anyone?
as insignificant as always
-si kenit-
Tun,
Please pardon my late rejoinder as I am new convert to your blog. It seems that the comments to this perennial itch have been most thorough and now exhausted.
The way I see it, the carnages that we have seen over the years were perpetrated by a strange and willful cooperation between 2 races competing over a piece of land that has an invaluable spiritual representation. Firstly, it was the Israeli versus the PLO and now it is with Hamas. Both parties seemed to find it perfectly expedient to perpetuate a circle of violence that serves their interests very well.
The tussle has evolved from a territorial contest to one that has strong religious connotations to it. How else could the Palestinians hope to galvanize enough strength and hope in the face of one of the world's most advance military force without invoking the name of the Almighty?
How else can the Israelis moralize their actions and galvanize western supports & opinions without linking this territorial dispute to a wider front that pits one religion against the other?
Not to mention vested interests by a host of parties wanting to ride on this tidal wave of violence. Ultras from both sides of the divide whose only acceptance to an end would be the complete annilation of the other. Religious zealots who seem to have some God-inspired plan to wage religious wars etc etc.
Perhaps the greatest motivation for its continuation is that it is interest of the Zionist to keep the status quo because a peaceful and strong Palestine state that exists next to Israel (that has vowed for its destruction) was just too big a risk.
The world may see the impasse broken if the Palestinians would break their vow calling for the destruction of Israel.
di kasihi TUN DR M
(M.Y)BEKAS MENTERI BESAR JOHOR & (T.R)BEKAS MENTERI KEAWANGAN BERGABONG SAMA DENGAN TUN DR M JUGA SHAFEE AFDAL insyaallah malaysia membawa kemakmoran, selamat mecuba rasepi ni
Dear Dr. Mahathir,
Salam Alaikum, Shalom and Grace – שלום וברכה.
As I promised, I’m back with my views about the issues you raised. No matter what are the arguments we have, I’m satisfied just for the fact that we have a cyber dialog than “shooting” each other. This is much more meaningful. It is probably very hard to convince each other, but I’m optimistic that we are on a way for a better future.
Before I’ll step into the depth of my comments, I would like to have a small preface.
I think we (Palestinians and Israelis) must try to make are compromising efforts in a positive approach instead a negative approach. This means that every side should think in terms “what can I give to the other side in order to achieve peace” instead “what can I get form the other side to live in peace”.
This is a kind of thinking out of the box. This approach was never tried. Why is the approach so different? What means to give something to the other side? It means that you are generous. It means you want to forgive. It means you burry hatred and has sympathy to the other side. It happens exactly when someone is donating. Everyone likes to donate more than being the one who gets the donation. Let’s try to give presents instead grabbing them. This can build a mutual “chemistry” during the negotiations that can ease the way for a solution.
To make that happen it is required to be even braver than deciding upon war. I know that it is against the herd logic and like swimming against the stream. Maybe it is even naive and some may think it is a total stupidity. On the other hand nobody can proof any results with a negative approach.
Dear Dr. Mahathir, It will be interesting to know what you think about the “positive approach” of compromising. Maybe you had some experience in such similar cases during your many years of experience in politics.
================================================================================================================
Here are my comments about the issues you raised in your last post (your text is added as an easy reference to have it on hand):
1. I think I cannot convince you on anything simply because your perception of things is not based on logic or reason but merely on your strong belief that you are always right, even if the whole world says you are wrong.
• Hanan:
Dear Dr. Mahathir, I’m the first person to admit if I’m wrong. I already did it a few times during my “short” life. But for that I need to understand that I’m wrong. Such an understanding is not a kind of convincing by someone from outside but a self-convincing action. I’m really reading deeply what you are writing, internalizing the information whatever it is, “doing my homework” and trying to understand you. At least we both are investing the time to read each other’s comments which is a huge step forward.
Dear Dr. Mahathir, on the other hand it is hard to convince you about the simple rights of Jews to have their own independent state on the land that was belonging them thousands years ago. Why should Muslims have so many independent Islamic republic and kingdoms and a single independent Jewish state on such small area is a big deal?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
2. Jews have lived with Muslims in Muslim countries for centuries without any serious problem.
• Hanan:
May be it is true but not 100% of all the facts. Yes, in some cases Jewish life flourished under Muslim governing, but it was centuries ago at the beginning of Islam and during its spreading. Let me provide some Jewish life under Muslims governing and among Muslims. Living of Jews in Muslim countries must not be related to the Israeli-Palestinian problem; not by time and not by location. This is according to what Muslims claim as their justice and fairness to minorities including Jews. Here is a “brief” summary about the problems/riots against Jews in different countries which I collected to enlighten the knowledge of all:
Syria –
Jews have lived in this land since biblical times and the community’s history is intertwined with the history of Jews in the land of Israel. Jewish population increased significantly after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492. Throughout the generations, the main Jewish communities were to be found in Damascus and Aleppo.
In 1943, the Jewish community of Syria had 30,000 members. This population was mainly distributed between Aleppo, where 17,000 Jews lived and Damascus, which had a Jewish population of 11,000.
In 1945, in an attempt to thwart efforts to establish a Jewish homeland, the government restricted emigration to Israel, and Jewish property was burned and looted. Anti-Jewish pogroms erupted in Aleppo in 1947, stimulating 7,000 of the town’s 10,000 Jews to flee in terror. The government then froze Jewish bank accounts and confiscated their property.
Shortly after the founding of Israel, as reported in the New York Times on May 16, 1948: “In Syria a policy of economic discrimination is in effect against Jews. ‘Virtually all’ Jewish civil servants in the employ of the Syrian Government have been discharged. Freedom of movement has been ‘practically abolished.’ Special frontier posts have been established to control movements of Jews.”
In 1949, banks were instructed to freeze the accounts of Jews and all their assets were expropriated. Over the course of subsequent tears, the continuing pattern of political and economic strangulation ultimately caused a total of 15,000 Jews to leave Syria, 10,000 of which emigrated to the U.S.A. and another 5,000 to Israel.
Iraq –
In June 1941, the Mufti-inspired, pro-Nazi coup of Rashid Ali sparked rioting and a pogrom in Baghdad. Armed Iraqi mobs murdered 180 Jews and wounded almost 1,000.
Additional outbreaks of anti-Jewish rioting occurred between 1946-1949. After the establishment of Israel in 1948, Zionism became a capital crime.
In 1950, Iraqi Jews were permitted to leave the country within a year provided they forfeited their citizenship. A year later, however, the property of Jews who emigrated was frozen and economic restrictions were placed on Jews who chose to remain in the country. From 1949 to 1951, 104,000 Jews were evacuated from Iraq in Operations Ezra and Nehemiah; another 20,000 were smuggled out through Iran. Thus a community that had reached a peak of some 150,000 in 1947 dwindled to a mere 6,000 after 1951.
In 1952, Iraq’s government barred Jews from emigrating. With the rise of competing Ba’ath factions in 1963, additional restrictions were placed on the remaining Iraqi Jews. The sale of property was forbidden and all Jews were forced to carry yellow identity cards. Persecutions continued, especially after the Six-Day War in 1967, when many of the remaining 3,000 Jews were arrested and dismissed from their jobs. Around that period, more repressive measures were imposed: Jewish property was expropriated; Jewish bank accounts were frozen; Jews were dismissed from public posts; businesses were shut; trading permits were cancelled; telephones were disconnected. Jews were placed under house arrest for long periods of time or restricted to the cities.
Persecution was at its worst at the end of 1968. Scores were jailed upon the discovery of an alleged local “spy ring” composed of Jewish businessmen. Fourteen men-eleven of them Jews-were sentenced to death in staged trials and, on January 27, 1969, were hanged in the public squares of Baghdad; others died of torture (Judith Miller and Laurie Mylroie, “Saddam Hussein and the Crisis in the Gulf”, p. 34).
In response to international pressure, the Baghdad government quietly allowed most of the remaining Jews to emigrate in the early 1970’s, even while leaving other restrictions in force. In 1973, most of Iraq’s remaining Jews were too old to leave and they were pressured by the government to turn over title, without compensation, to more than $200 million worth of Jewish community property (New York Times, February 18, 1973).
Today, approximately 61 Jews are left in Baghdad. A once flourishing Jewish community in Iraq has thus been extinguished (Associated Press, March 28, 1998).
Discriminatory Decrees and Violations of Human Rights
(Intended merely as a sampling and not an exhaustive compilation)
The first piece of legislation enacted that violated the rights of Jews was the 1948 amendment 12 to the 1938 supplement 13 to the Penal Code of Baghdad. The Baghdad Penal Code set out the provision regarding communism, anarchy and immorality in section 89A(1). The section generally prohibits the publication of anything that incites the spread of hatred, abuse of the government or the integrity of the people. This amendment, enacted in 1948, added “Zionism” to communism, anarchism and immorality, the propagation of which constituted an offence punishable by seven years imprisonment and/or a fine.
In an article that appeared in the New York Times on May 16, 1948, it was reported that: “In Iraq no Jew is permitted to leave the country unless he deposits £5,000 ($20,000) with the Government to guarantee his return. No foreign Jew is allowed to enter Iraq even in transit.”
Law No. 1 of 1950, entitled “Supplement to Ordinance Cancelling Iraqi Nationality,” in fact deprived Jews of their Iraqi nationality. Section 1 stipulated that “the Council of Ministers may cancel the Iraqi nationality of the Iraqi Jew who willingly desires to leave Iraq...” (official Iraqi English translation).
Law No. 5 of 1951 entitled “A law for the Supervision and Administration of the Property of Jews who have Forfeited Iraqi Nationality” also deprived them of their property. Section 2(a) “freezes” Jewish property.
There were a series of laws that subsequently expanded on the confiscation of assets and property of Jews who “forfeited Iraqi nationality”. These included Law No. 12 of 1951 16 and the attached Law No. 64 of 1967 (relating to ownership of shares in commercial companies) and Law No. 10 of 1968 (relating to banking restrictions).
Libya-
The establishment of the State of Israel led many Jews to leave the country. In June 1948, protesting the founding of the Jewish state, rioters murdered another 12 Jews and destroyed 280 Jewish homes. Although emigration was illegal, more than 3,000 Jews succeeded to leave to Israel. When the British legalized emigration in 1949, and in the years immediately preceding Libyan independence in 1951, hostile demonstrations and riots against Jews brought about the departure of some 30,000 Jews who fled the country up to, and after the point when Libya was granted independence and membership in the Arab League in 1951 (Norman Stillman, The Jews of Arab Lands in Modern Times).
Egypt-
In the 1940’s, with the rise of Egyptian nationalism and the Zionist movement’s efforts to create a Jewish homeland in adjoining Israel, anti-Jewish activities began in earnest. In 1945, riots erupted – ten Jews were killed; 350 injured, and a synagogue, a Jewish hospital, and an old-age home were burned down. After the success of the Zionist movement in establishing the State of Israel, between June and November of 1948, violence and repressive measures by the Government and Egyptians began in earnest. Bombs were set off in the Jewish Quarter, killing more than 70 Jews and wounded nearly 200. Rioting over the next few months resulted in many more Jewish deaths. 2,000 Jews were arrested and many had their property confiscated.
In 1956, the Egyptian government used the Sinai Campaign as a pretext to order almost 25,000 Egyptian Jews to leave the country and confiscated their property. They were allowed to take only one suitcase and a small sum of cash, and forced to sign declarations “donating” their property to the Egyptian government. Approximately 1,000 more Jews were sent to prisons and detention camps. On November 23, 1956, a proclamation signed by the Minister of Religious Affairs, and read aloud in mosques throughout Egypt, declared that “all Jews are Zionists and enemies of the state,” and promised that they would be soon expelled (AP, November 26 and 29 1956; New York World Telegram).
By 1957, the Jewish population of Egypt had fallen to 15,000. In 1967, after the Six-Day War, there was a renewed wave of persecution, and the community dropped to 2,500. By the 1970s, after the remaining Jews were given permission to leave the country, the community dwindled to a few families.
Jewish rights were finally restored in 1979 after President Anwar Sadat signed the Camp David Accords with Israel. Only then was the community allowed to establish ties with Israel and with world Jewry. Nearly all the estimated 200 Jews left in Egypt are elderly and the once proud and flourishing Jewish community is on the verge of extinction.
Discriminatory Decrees and Violations of Human Rights
(Intended merely as a sampling and not an exhaustive compilation)
The first Nationality Code was promulgated by Egypt on May 26, 1926. Entitled to Egyptian nationality were only those who “belonged racially to the majority of the population of a country whose language is Arabic or whose religion is Islam.”
This provision served as the official pretext for expelling many Jews from Egypt.
On July 29, 1947, an amendment was introduced to the Egyptian Companies Law which made it mandatory for at least 75% of the administrative employees of a company to be Egyptian nationals and 90% of employees in general. This resulted in the dismissal and loss of livelihood for many Jews since only 15% of them had been granted Egyptian citizenship.
A mass departure of Jews was sparked when Egypt passed an amendment in 1956 to the original Egyptian Nationality Law of 1926. Article 1 of the Law of November 22, 1956, stipulated that “Zionists” were barred from being Egyptian nationals.
Article 18 of the 1956 law asserted that “Egyptian nationality may be declared forfeited by order of the Ministry of Interior in the case of persons classified as Zionists.” Moreover, the term “Zionist” was never defined, leaving Egyptian authorities free to interpret as broadly as they pleased.
Provision both in the 1956 and 1958 laws permitted the government to take away citizenship of any Egyptian Jew absent from UAR territory for more than six consecutive months. That this provision is aimed exclusively at Jews is shown by the fact that the lists of denaturalized persons published time and again by the Official Journal contains Jewish names only, despite the fact that there were many non-Jewish Egyptians who stayed abroad for over six months.
Economic Discrimination and Strangulation
(Intended as a sampling and not an exhaustive compilation)
Law No. 26 of 1952 obligated all corporations to employ certain prescribed percentages of “Egyptians.” A great number of Jewish salaried employees lost their jobs, and could not obtain similar ones, because they did not belong to the category of Jews with Egyptian nationality.
Between November 1-20 1956, official records reveal that by a series of sequestration orders issued under Military Proclamation No. 4, the property of many hundreds of Jews in Egypt was taken from their owners and turned over to Egyptian administrators.
Proclamation No. 4 was carried into effect almost exclusively against Jews; and though a number of Copts and Moslems were also interned, their assets were never sequestered.
Of the published lists of 486 persons and firms whose properties were seized under Military Proclamation No. 4, at least 95 per cent of them are Jews. The names of persons and firms affected by this measure represented the bulk of the economic substance of Egyptian Jewry, the largest and most important enterprises and the main sustenance, through voluntary contributions, of Jewish religious, educational, social and welfare institutions in Egypt.
In addition to the vast sequestration of property and other discriminatory treatment, Directive No. 189 issued under the authority of Military Proclamation No. 4, authorized the Director General of the Sequestering Agency to deduct from the assets belonging to interned persons, 10% of the value of the sequestered property, presumably to cover the costs of administration. Hence, without regard to the question of whether a property is legally sequestered, the Jews of Egypt were being taxed to pay for the machinery or improper sequestration and withholding.
The Jews leaving Egypt were subjected to additional deprivations and inconveniences. A regulation was established which only authorized Jews leaving Egypt to take with them travellers checks or other international exchange documents up to a value of 100 pounds sterling per capita. The Bank of Egypt provided Jews leaving the country with instruments specifically drawn on Egyptian accounts in Britain and France, when Egyptian authorities knew well that those accounts were blocked in reciprocation for the Egyptian blocking of British and French assets in Egypt and was not freely negotiable abroad.
Morocco-
By 1948, this ancient Jewish community, the largest in North Africa, numbered 265,000. In June 1948, after the establishment of the State of Israel, bloody riots in Oujda and Djerada killed 44 Jews and wounded scores more. That same year, an unofficial economic boycott was instigated against Moroccan Jews.
Immigration to Israel started upon the initiative of small groups who arrived at the time of Israel’s independence. However, the waves of mass immigration, which brought a total of more than 250,000 Moroccan Jews to Israel, were prompted by anti-Jewish measures carried out in response to the establishment of the State of Israel. On June 4, 1949, riots broke out in northern Morocco killing and injuring dozens of Jews. Shortly afterwards, the Jews began to leave.
During the two-year period between 1955 and 1957 alone, over 70,000 Moroccan Jews arrived in Israel. In 1956, Morocco declared its independence, Jewish immigration to Israel was suspended and by 1959, Zionist activities became illegal in Morocco. During these years more than 30,000 Jews left for France and the Americas. In 1963, the ban on emigration to Israel was lifted bringing another 100,000 to her shores.
Today, the Jewish community of Morocco has dwindled to about 2% of its original size. Of the 17,000 Jews that remain, two-thirds live in Casablanca.
Algeria-
In 1934, Muslims incited by events in Nazi Germany, rampaged in Constantine killing 25 Jews and injuring many more. Before 1962, there were 60 Jewish communities, each maintaining their own rabbis, synagogues and educational institutions. After being granted independence in 1962, the Algerian government harassed the Jewish community and deprived Jews of their economic rights. As a result, almost 130,000 Algerian Jews immigrated to France and, since 1948, 25,681 Algerian Jews have immigrated to Israel.
Algeria's independence from France was the key event in the final uprooting of the Jewish community. As a result of the desire of Algeria and Algerians to join in the wave of Pan-Arab nationalism that was sweeping North Africa, Jews no longer felt welcome after the French departure. The Algerian Nationality Code of 1963 made this clear by granting Algerian nationality as a right only to those inhabitants whose fathers and paternal grandfathers had Muslim personal status in Algeria. 24 In other words, although the National Liberation Front in Algeria was known for its slogan "A Democratic Secular State"; it adhered to strictly religious criteria in granting nationality, thereby entrenching anti-Israel and anti-Jewish bias in the country.
Tunisia-
The first documented evidence of Jews living in what is today Tunisia dates back to 200 CE.
After the Arab conquest of Tunisia in the 7th century, Jews lived under satisfactory conditions, despite discriminatory measures such as a poll tax.
In 1948, the Tunisian Jewish community had numbered 105,000, with 65,000 living in Tunis alone.
After Tunisia gained independence in 1956, a series of anti-Jewish government decrees were promulgated. In 1958, Tunisia’s Jewish Community Council was abolished by the government and ancient synagogues, cemeteries and Jewish quarters were destroyed for “urban renewal.”
Similar to the conditions for Jews in Algeria, the rise of Tunisian nationalism led to anti-Jewish legislation and in 1961 caused Jews to leave in great numbers. The increasingly unstable situation caused more than 40,000 Tunisian Jews to immigrate to Israel. By 1967, the country’s Jewish population had shrunk to 20,000.
During the six-day war, Jews were attacked by rioting Arab mobs, and synagogues and shops were burned. The government denounced the violence and appealed to the Jewish population to stay, but did not bar them from leaving. Subsequently, 7,000 Jews immigrated to France.
Even as late as 1982, there were attacks on Jews in the towns of Zarzis and Ben Guardane. Today an estimated 2,000 Jews remain in Tunisia.
Yemen-
The Jews of Yemen have various legends relating to their coming to that country, the most wide-spread of which states that they arrived there before the destruction of the First Temple (587 BCE). The first historical evidence of their existence in Yemen dates from the third century.
Jews had begun to leave Yemen in the 1880s, when some 2,500 had made their way to Jerusalem and Jaffa. But it was after World War I, when Yemen became independent, that anti-Jewish feeling in that country made emigration imperative. Anti-Semitic laws, which had lain dormant for years were revived (e.g. Jews were not permitted to walk on pavements – or to ride horses). In court, a Jew’s evidence was not accepted against that of a Moslem.
In 1922, the government of Yemen reintroduced an ancient Islamic law requiring that Jewish orphans under age 12 be forcibly converted to Islam. When a Jew decided to emigrate, he had to leave all his property. In spite of this, between 1923 and 1945 a total of 17,000 Yemenite Jews left and immigrated to Palestine.
After the Second World War, thousands of more Yemenite Jews wanted to come to Palestine, but the British Mandate’s White Paper was still in force and those who left Yemen ended up in crowded slums in Aden, where serious riots broke out in 1947 after the United Nations decided on partition. Many Jews were killed, and the Jewish quarter was burned to the ground. It was not until September 1948 that the British authorities in Aden allowed the refugees to proceed to Israel.
In 1947, after the partition vote, Muslim rioters engaged in a bloody pogrom in Aden that killed 82 Jews and destroyed hundreds of Jewish homes. The Jewish community of Aden, numbering 8,000 in 1948, was forced to flee. By 1959 over 3,000 arrived in Israel. Many fled to the U.S.A. and England. Today there are no Jews left in Aden.
Around the time of Israel’s founding, Yemen’s Jewish community was economically paralyzed, as most of the Jewish stores and businesses were destroyed. This increasingly perilous situation led to the emigration of virtually the entire Yemenite Jewish community - almost 50,000 - between June 1949 and September 1950 in Operation “Magic Carpet.” A smaller, continuous migration was allowed to continue into 1962, when a civil war put an abrupt halt to any further Jewish exodus.
It is another example of the displacement of an entire Jewish community from its ancient roots in the Arab countries. It is estimated, there are about 1,000 Jews in Yemen today. They are held as hostages, and are kept in dire conditions and not allowed to leave.
Dear Dr. Mahathir, as an intelligent, educated and experienced persona, can you justify the actions above that were against Jews? Those few facts are proving that the conflict is Islam-Jewish while using the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as an excuse to mask the religious conflict.
I must admit I couldn’t find much about the Jewish community in Malaysia. As far as I know, that community disappeared in the late 60’s after the independence of Malaysia (Hari Merdeka). I really don’t know why the Jews left Malaysia. Why did they immigrate to Singapore? It is really a mystery for me. I’ll be very glad if you can provide me (privately if you like) some more information from your knowledge and documents you have been exposed to during your service as PM.
Do you think that Muslims are discriminated under the Zionist governing? Are the Israeli Arabs discriminated more that the minorities in Malaysia under the NEP and quota. Why should a Malaysian Chinese pay full price for some assets while the Malay (Muslims) has a discount? Why should a Chinese student spend a fortune to study in Singapore, Australia, England or US while the Malay students have their privilege to study in the country universities under the quota law? In Israel we don’t have that discrimination however we still need to improve. Why a Zionist hospital that was build from Zionist donation, established a Mosque for the Muslim patients and visitors? Zionists are the Arabs and Palestinians enemy, then how can it be? We don’t have the Dhimmi for our “second class” minorities like Muslims tend to have in history. Is this proving that Zionism equals racism? Believe me that Israeli Arabs are living in much better conditions than any Jew under a Muslim government in the past and present time. It will be good for you to have a visit to Israel and explore it in your own eyes to establish your objective opinion. I hope that this time, if you come, they will let you in easily.
We are still not 100% perfect as same as other Muslim countries including Malaysia are not perfect dealing with minorities. We can and must improve.
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3. On the other hand in Europe, Jews were persecuted. Every now and again there would be pogroms when the Europeans would massacre Jews. The Holocaust did not happen in Muslim countries. Muslims may discriminate against Jews but did not massacre them.
• Hanan:
As far as I know prophet Mohammed massacred the Jewish tribe Banu Quraiza. Why did he that? Why did he accept massacring all surrendering men that were already fettered? Where is the mercy of the prophet upon surrendering prisoners?
On December 30, 1066 (9 Tevet 4827), a Muslim mob stormed the royal palace in Granada, which was at that time in al-Andalus, assassinated Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela and massacred most of the Jewish population of the city. Assuming that vizier was a culprit of evil, why should those Muslim massacre almost all Jews of Granada? If there is a single Muslim terrorist among a group, should we kill the whole group?
Islam and Muslims are not purified of evil mistakes, but Muslims are failing to admit that.
You said Muslims may discriminate Jews. Why do you say “may”? This is because you refuse to be convinced that Muslims are practicing discrimination according to their faith and Quran. Jews discrimination by Muslims is not racism? Muslims discrimination economically by NEP of the Malaysian minorities is not racism? When a minister says that the Malaysian Chinese are “guests” in Malaysia while they are Malaysian born for at least several generations, is not racism?
The destiny of Jews and other religious minorities in Muslim countries is similar and depending very much the “good will” of the government at the particular time. There is a time minorities are flourishing and times they are depressed. There are some minorities that are flourishing despite depression like Jews during their living in the Diaspora.
I know that those words are hard to accept, but those are facts.
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4. But now you are fighting the largely Muslim Palestinians. It cannot be because of religious differences or the killing of Jews living among them. It must be because you have taken their land and expelled them from their homeland. It is therefore not a religious war. But of course as you seek sympathizers from among the non-Muslims, the Palestinians seek sympathizers among the Muslims. That still does not make the war a religious war.
• Hanan:
May be it is you and many others who say that it is a territorial war. But when you ask the Palestinians and particularly Hamas, they claim it is a holy war for the Muslim land of Palestine which is a Waqf asset.
From where Jews spread over Europe, Asia and Africa before Islam was even born? Did they arrive from the moon? Did they arrive from another planet? Don’t you think that they were living in one place before they arrived to their new places? Where was that place?
What is more wondering is the “generosity” of Muslims that knew that the Land of Israel was once Jewish, but when they conquered that land they didn’t even think to tell the Jews: “Oh Jews, come back to your home from where you have been expelled by force. There are no Romans anymore. You may come back to your homes and live your life in your homeland”.
The Quran says:
"To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: 'Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.' 'You know full well,' he [Moses] replied, 'that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.'"
"Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: 'Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."
"We [Allah] have revealed the Qur'an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning."
[Qur'an, "Night Journey," chapter 17:100-104].
So how is it that you say it is not belonging also to the Jews? It is not written that this land belongs to Muslims or Palestinians.
Are you convinced that the Land of Israel or even parts of it is belonging to the Jews as same or even more than belongs to the Palestinians?
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5. Whether you speak Hebrew or not is not relevant. Lots of people who are not English speak English. They don't belong to England. For centuries you could speak Hebrew but remained Germans, British, French, Russians etc.
• Hanan:
Dear Dr. Mahathir. You are trying to interpret and twist facts. What you say has no relevance to the facts that the roots of Hebrew are from the Land of Israel and a language used by the Children of Israel all along the history. Even some present Jews are not speaking Hebrew in the Diaspora, it doesn’t mean their roots are not in the Land of Israel.
Australia, New Zealand is English speaking countries. From where is that language coming? Aren’t the roots from England? The origins of people of those countries (colonialists, not natives) were English.
I know that many Palestinians are living now in America, Canada, England and many other countries for at least two generations or even more. They speak the native language whatever it is and maybe also Arabic. Why do they call themselves Palestinians and claim the rights to return to Palestine while the Jews must remain the citizens of those same countries?
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6. Lots of Jews cannot speak Hebrew but they are still Jews. Merely being able to speak Hebrew does not entitle you to claim Palestine.
• Hanan:
Of course the language is not the only thing. Furthermore, how many times is Jerusalem mentioned in the Quran by its name “Jerusalem” (without any interpretations, like Al-Quds)? How many times are mentioned the word “Jerusalem” as pure as I wrote it in our holy Bible and praying books? I’ll leave the counting for who really bothers to find out. Furthermore, towards where is a Muslim facing while praying? Is it towards Jerusalem? When a Jew is praying, he is facing towards Jerusalem. Have you asked yourself why? It is because the Jewish roots are in Jerusalem and the Promised Land of Israel.
You call a specific place in Jerusalem “Bait-Al-Maqdis”. What does it mean? Isn’t it the Jewish “Beit Hamikdash” – the Holy Temple where Jews were practicing their faith during their independent kingdoms? What Muslims did is strived to wipe of that fact by building a Mosque exactly on that place.
I’m sorry dear Dr. Mahathir; you cannot convince me with distorted historical facts. You may try something else.
Israel belongs to the Jews whatever anyone may think, like or dislike that fact. On the other hand, Palestinians have the rights to live here with equal rights just because the fact they have been here for centuries. We respect that right. This is our compromise of that land.
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7. The Jews had lived in Europe for centuries. They identify themselves with their domicile. They fought the wars of these countries often against other Jews living in enemy countries.
• Hanan:
What does it prove? Do you know that in the Israeli Army we have Muslim soldiers and these soldiers are fighting against other Muslims in the so called the Jewish army. Your claim has nothing to do with the conflict.
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8. These countries are their homeland. So why should they take Palestinian land to make their own country? They could take any of the European countries as their own country. The United States of America should offer one of its states as Israel.
• Hanan:
In this case, I would say that all Palestinian refugees worldwide are second, third, fourth or more generation are the citizens of their new countries and cannot claim the return rights. Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and all other countries shall offer them the place. Would you accept that? Are the Palestinians accepting that?
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9. As to history, the Malays had occupied a lot of land in Southeast Asia since time immemorial. Today much of our land has become part of neighboring countries, having been conquered or because of treaties entered into by the British. We should really go to war to regain our land especially as there are Malays living there.
• Hanan:
I’m trying to understand what this has to do with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Let me put my analogy understanding of that. The fact is that at the moment a few million of Jews are living in Israel. Why should Palestinians go to war to regain the land just because a minority of Arabs is living in Israel?
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10. But we want to live in peace with our neighbours. So we accept the borders drawn by the colonialists.
• Hanan:
Thank you for that Dr. Mahathir. You cannot imagine how our desire to live in peace with our neighbors is. So why shouldn’t the Palestinians and Israelis accept any compromise plan they decide upon through a dialog? Can you help them to draft that agreement? If you can do it (I’m not counted as I’m functionless), I can assure you that you are the next Muslim and first Malaysian to be proudly awarding the Nobel Prize of Peace. I’ll be the first to clap hands and bless you (I mean it, read my lips).
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11. You may say it is a joke to believe the Philistines are the forebears of the Palestinians. But what may be a joke to you is a serious belief of much of the non-Jewish world.
• Hanan:
Dear Dr. Mahathir, you may find information about Philistines here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philistia
http://www.bga.nl/en/articles/filist1.html
http://www.biblemysteries.com/lectures/philistines.htm
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12. We did not have a Jewish representative at our conference. But I am sure when you have a conference in Israel you did not have Muslim representatives either.
• Hanan:
It is not more then I would like to use a correct definition of facts while you said: “The participants at the forum represented all races, belonging to all religions” and now you are saying that no Jews were invited. I would replace the word “all” with the word “some” or “many”. The reason is due to future history aspects. There will be someone who may read that information in 100 year later and may think that Jews were invited to that conference.
In addition I would recommend you to read this article about a conference of a Jewish organization in Australia where Muslims attended: http://www.ajn.com.au/news/news.asp?pgID=2583.
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13. I can sympathise over the killings of the Jews. But show me pictures of total destruction of Israeli towns and villages. Show me the effect of the primitive Hamas rockets on the Israeli people. Compare them with the effects of your bombs, rockets, shells, chemical weapons you used on the Gazans. When did Hamas blockade you and starve Israeli people and deprive them of medical attention. Did Hamas build a wall to separate Israelis from other Israelis including from family members? Did Hamas build settlements in Israel?
• Hanan:
Dear Dr. Mahathir, have you seen pictures of destruction of lives? About what are you talking? Are you talking about destruction of buildings? Is this the important thing? Aren’t the peoples’ lost lives, Palestinians and Israelis more important? We can forgive our enemy for destroying our houses, damaging our assets, but how can we deal the same with lost lives?
Of course our bombs are more precise and less statistical. Would you like us to bomb our enemy with statistical shells or rockets? Then you’ll say actually the same, that we are killing innocent civilians with non precise weapons.
Thanks God Hamas is not yet blockading us. Sorry to be a bit “aggressive” but our enemy Hamas is saying that its aim is to wipe off Israel and kill the Jews. Hams means it and is doing it without any mercy. Should we support them steel and iron so they can produce more of their rockets? Hamas banished all international border passages inspectors and created there a chaos so they will be able to smuggle more destructive weapons in order to fight against Israel. This cannot be accepted by any mean. The Hamas ideology is well known and nursing from the most radical Islam. Gazans elected Hamas knowing well their charter and the fundamental radicalism. So if they are feeling punished, it is because of Hamas.
Why isn’t any blockade on the West Bank or East Jerusalem? Palestinians there have their needed supplies without any problem.
The fence (wall in your terminology) is a passive defense mean against terror. May be you forgot the suicide bombers within Israeli buses and malls prior the fence was built. It is proven statistically that those suicide bombing is now almost not existing because of that fence. When peace will come, I can assure you that the fence will not be a barrier between both peoples. A fence can be built and removed easily when the time will come. Lost lives of a suicide bombing cannot return. What is the worth of so called separated families because of that fence if it saves even a single innocent person from death? But assuming that a dead person is a Jew, it cannot be more important than Palestinian family members can greet each other a “good morning”. A Palestinian “good morning greeting” is much more valuable than a life of a Jew.
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14. This idea of out-terrorising the terrorists, of massive retaliation on a scale that horrifies the whole world will not work.
• Hanan:
Dr. Mahathir, this is not massive retaliation. Just think if we would want to do that massive retaliation couldn’t we burn Gaza in a few hours? Why don’t we complete what you claim as massive retaliation? This means that what you say is a mistakenly fact. We are not so evil thinking to revenge the whole population because of terrorism. The revenge is more popular among Muslims. Palestinians are always claiming their revenge upon Israeli military activities. And what they do is mainly terrorizing Israeli civilians.
Terrorizing civilians is not horrifying? Can the Palestinian terror work? Can Muslims terror work? May be we should let them continue with their terror, sit and ask them to continue with more terror since this is not horrifying the world and may work better. It will achieve better “to cast terror in their hearts”.
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15. Our people who went to Gaza were amazed at the attitude of the people there. Even after the deaths of so many of them, the deaths of their children and babies; even after their towns have been flattened, their schools and hospitals destroyed, they show no fear. Every one of them expects to die at any time because of your attacks but they would never surrender. When asked they simply said it is their land and they would defend it to the last. Even an Arab Christian priest was determined to stay on in Gaza. Those of their children who survive will prepare themselves to defend their land like their parents. Your attacks fail to terrify them or to force them to submit. You only succeed in instilling greater hatred of Israel and the Israelis.
• Hanan:
Your people who went to Gaza saw just one side of the picture and arrived there with a biased opinion. Yes, this is a sad story of killed people and flattened infrastructure. By providing this fact without addressing the root cause, someone would think that Israel is playing war for fun. We don’t ask them to surrender. We don’t want them to die. We want them to live in dignity and to let us live without the daily terror.
Unfortunately the hatred is increasing on both sides. This is because people are thinking wrong and react with anger. It is Hamas who imprisoned the population to suffer because of their radical Islam-Politics against Israel and the Jews. As same the Jews will not surrender and fight for our rights to live here till the last person.
There are three options of a solution. (1)The Palestinians shall wipe the Jews from the land or (2) the Israelis shall wipe the Palestinians from the land or (3) both sides must find a solution to live side by side and compromise. Not recognizing one side rights to exist on that land like Hamas is doing is disabling the third option of compromising. That’s the simple logic that no one can accept if he wants to survive.
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16. When it was pointed out to them that they are no match for the Israeli forces and their weapons of mass destruction, when it was pointed out that their rockets were primitive and cannot compare with the destructiveness of Israeli rockets, they were not disheartened. The Israeli attacks simply strengthened their resolve to go on fighting. The Israeli idea to out-terrorise them has not worked and I believe it would not work.
• Hanan:
Dear Dr. Mahathir, this method of resistance was tried out for so many years and did not solve anything but more bitterness. This is an attitude of hopeless people. Palestinians should not be hopeless. As an engineer, when I discover that my solution of a problem is not working, I try some other approach to solve it. When a system is having a short circuit and the fuse is blown, maybe I’ll try to replace the fuse once, twice, even ten times. But the fuse is still blowing. I need a different approach and address a better solution instead replacing the fuses. Maybe I’ll increase its value but it still blows. Can I increase that value endless? I may damage the system. Then I need to think out of the box and find another approach to solve the problem.
The Palestinians are trying along many years to replace the fuses and it blows time after time. They even increased its value and they didn’t gain any solution but frustration all along the way. A new approach to solve the problem is required. A violent resistance – terror is not the way. Let’s not push each other to the wall and meet in the center of the room to speak. This is a different approach in my point of view. Let’s brainstorm and do something for the next generations.
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17. Your arguments simply confirm my belief that the Jews have the same degree of hatred for the Palestinians, despite the fact that you suffer less than them.
• Hanan:
I would not try to measure which side hates more. Definitely, there is hatred between the peoples. The root cause of that hatred lies in front of both sides. It is not based on personal haltered but national one. As a national hatred it is pointed only and only to the peoples politicians and religion clerics. Demonizing people is not done by the humble citizens; it is done by politicians whatever the reason is. I think if the politicians and clerics would describe a different approach to solve the problem it may work with the humble people as well.
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18. The war has degenerated into a feud between Palestinians and Israelis. The Palestinians know they cannot win the war but that simply heightened their hatred for Israelis. They will nevertheless try to kill Jews, even if that will intensify Jewish hatred for the Palestinians. And you will retaliate with many times greater ferocity because you cannot force them to their knees. Their resistance simply increase your anger and hatred of them.
• Hanan:
Dear Dr. Mahathir, you are right. This looks like an endless bloody wheel that spins faster and faster. We must join forces to stop that wheel. Believe me, honestly, the last thing I want is more killing and dead people on both sides. Don’t think I have no mercy for the innocent Palestinians. But I have the same mercy for my own people who are suffering as well. The approach of the Palestinians, Israeli and the Muslim world should change. All forces must join to bring a new vision of hope to both peoples. Those many years of violence didn’t provide any constructive solution, but pain and more pain. We can make it!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
19. We have come to an impasse. If Israel is bent on occupying Palestinian land, on building Jewish settlements, on building Berlin walls and on sanctions and blockade, the Palestinians will continue their futile attacks. Arabs will die, maybe 10 for every one Jew. But with the hatred for Jews which they harbour, that is a worthwhile sacrifice. And Jews will kill more Arabs to express their hatred. And so it will go on as it had gone for 60 years, as it will go on for another 60 years or more.
• Hanan:
Dear Dr. Mahathir. Before the fence was built and the blockade on Gaza didn’t the Palestinians do their futile attacks? Didn’t we suffer their terror? It looks like this is their way to solve their problems. The hatred is increasing and it is to blame the Palestinians as same as the Israelis if to be fair in judgment.
Saying that the war may continue another 60 years or more using the same strategy is proving that you are or militant (which I prefer not to believe) or hopeless of a solution (which must not be). A wise man like you, as a leader you cannot afford yourself to be hopeless. I would encourage you to think over the situation again and again and try to find the light at the end of the tunnel. It must not continue for another 60 years of violence and sorrow.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
20. Dear Hanan, tell your Government to compromise.
• Hanan:
My government is ready to compromise. They always demonstrated it as by the pulling back from Gaza and letting the Palestinians start a new page without terror. When we occupied Gaza they terrorized and claimed that this is the reason. We pulled back and they continued their terror.
Compromising must be a demand on both sides. What did we get from the Palestinians for our previous compromising?
Dear Dr. Mahathir, I’ll ask you something. Please, kindly go to your government which you know very well and ask them to compromise and establish diplomatic relations with Israel. This should be very easy for you since Israel has no border conflict with Malaysia and your position is much stronger on your government than mine on my government.
After you do this, I’ll go to my government and tell them to compromise more (based on the terror to be stopped). This will be a sign for me that the Muslim world has a different approach and really seeks for peace.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Let me end my comments with a personal poem I wrote (which you are probably familiar with, but the other readers are not yet familiar).
A Wish for Brotherhood
Once upon a time we were brothers,
So were our mothers and fathers.
So were our grandfathers, grandmothers.
Can't we have something that gathers?
Why should hate spread more than love?
Why to shoot down the peaceful dove?
Why to use the killing bloody sword
Instead a meaningful loving word?
Can't we join our forces to unite?
Can’t we spread love instead to fight?
Our common to bloom and prosper,
The hate will eliminate and defer.
Let our bright sun to rise and shine,
Salute peace and raise a toast of wine.
Build for our kids playing yards
And not bloody gloomy graveyards.
Let's then be sisters and brothers,
Even our colors differs the others.
Let our hands strongly embrace and bundle,
Then on earth peace will role and handle.
Hanan© 04-12-2003
May God bless you with Salam, Shalom.
Hanan, Jewish and an Israeli Zionist.
i once thought jews are clever but hanan proved me wrong.
i've read somewhere, the reason hitler didnt kill all the jewish when he had the opportunity was because he wanted the world to see/experience the reason he want to remove them from from this world. now the whole world can see why. thinking back, hilter might be right on that.
Orang Yahudi yang tinggal di Malaysia akan dilayan sama seperti manusia-manusia lain. Tetapi kalau buat perangai seperti orang Yahudi di Israel pastinya umpama menjolok sarang tebuan.
Waima, orang malaysia sekalipun kalau buat perangai macam orang Yahudi sure kena balun baik punya!
Assalamualaikum Tun,..
Izinkan saya berkongsi pendapat saya...
Ramai orang tak faham dan buat-buat terus tak faham bahawasanya orang-orang Palestin ditindas dan tertindas. Tanah mereka dirampas dan mereka diusir dari tanah air sendiri. Itulah punca orang-orang Palestine memerangi orang Yahudi yang merampas tanah mereka.
Pada mereka, bumi palestinadalah milik Israel dan orang-orang Yahudi. Orang Islam Palestine TAK LAYAK beradadi sana dan perlu diusir keluar.... Boleh ke camtu? Aci ke?
Tak boleh ke orang-orang Yahudi Israel nie hidup aman bertoleransi dengan orang Islam Palestin seperti di Malaysia? Jawapannya, kalau dah kafir lahanat, kafir lahanat jugalah perangainya.
Sesiapa sahaja di muka bumi ini, kalau mereka ditindas dan tertindas, mereka juga akan bangkit memperjuangkan hak mereka. Itulah asas perjuangan orang Islam di Palestin.
Terima kasih Tun,
Saya doakan Yang Berbahagia, Tun suami isteri dalam keadaan sejahtera selamanya hendaknya.
Amin!
Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Adnan Yaakob has confirmed that he will contest for the post of Umno Supreme Council at party elections next month.
He said he made the decision after considering various factors.
"I've actually stated that I won't be contesting but after considering various factors, including advices from friends, I decided to contest as I don't want my refusal to contest to be misinterpreted,"
comment:
Not surprise at all.He does not want to miss the boat after all and finally decided to contest.
Harap kelakuannya menggunakan isyarat tangan yang menjijikan tidak berulang lagi.
Nizar to vacate official residence tomorrow
Bernama
IPOH, Sat.:
Former Perak menteri besar Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin will vacate the Menteri Besar's official residence here tomorrow, but will only hand over the keys on Friday.
comment:
No rushing,Nizar. Take your time. After all I don't think Zambry is so desperate to move in.
Sarawak DAP to only talk to Anwar on seat allocation
NST Newsdesk
Sarawak DAP would only talk to Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim on seat allocation for the next state election.
We will not talk to any other state PKR leaders, State DAP chairman Wong Ho Leng told reporters after a brief meeting with Anwar here yesterday.
comment:
Alahai Anwar! Who are you in Sarawak? Jangan kacau Sarawak lah. You are not wanted there. Don't waste your time over there. You can't even handle your state govt. in Semenanjong and now you berangan besar nak control Sarawak State. Cukuplah tu. Your party is now kelam kabut with all the scandals. How to govern !!
Zambry: I am MB appointed by Sultan
Bernama
IPOH, Sat.:
Perak Menteri Besar Datuk Dr Zambry Abdul Kadir today again stressed that his position as head of the state government was clear but was made to look otherwise by certain quarters.
comment:
Of course, Zambry, you are the Mentri Besar of Perak without the slightest shadow of doubt. Don't be distracted by those "clowns" who are still in the state of denial. They are losers of the first order.
You must move forward and stop looking back. I know you are in better position to do a lot of things for Perakians. Make no mistake about it. Don't let these "clowns" to frustrate you.
Daulat Tuanku! Daulat Tuanku! Daulat Tuanku !!
AirAsia approached to sponsor MU jersey
Bernama
KUALA LUMPUR, Sat:
Low-cost-carrier AirAsia Bhd has been approached by Manchester United (MU)to sponsor the jersey of the soccer giants.
This was revealed by AirAsia chief executive officer Datuk Seri Tony Fernandes in his blog on Wednesday.
"Manchester United have just approached me on whether AirAsia would be interested in becoming their shirt sponsor," said Tony in his blog.
He said having the players of the most famous soccer club in the world donning jerseys with the name and logo of a Malaysian-born global brand was something all Malaysians could be proud of.
He, however, did not state whether AirAsia would make the commitment and asked visitors to the blog to give their feedback.
As of today, 88 per cent of the visitors voiced their support.
MU had to find new sponsors for the jersey after insurance giant AIG(American International Group), who are faced with financial difficulties as a result of the world economic crisis, did not seek to renew the deal.
The four-year sponsorship contract with AIG due to expire in 2010 is reported to be worth US$100 million (RM360 million).
comment:
Hey, Tony ! Which is which now? Mau bikin airport atau mau sponsor MU jersey? he,he,he, kah, kah, kah! US$100 million lo !!Can build a brand new mini airport, man !!
If I were you I would sponsor Labu Labi Football Club. It is only worth few ringgit and Air Asia would get maximum marketing exposure. I think it is the best marketing strategy to promote Air Asia.
Anyway, on a serious note, I would like to congratulate you in advance if you could manage to secure a deal with the most famous football team in the world. You are great man !! We are proud of you. Syabas !!
Shahidan seeks support to contest OCM presidency
Bernama
KUALA LUMPUR, Sat.:
Malaysian Amateur Athletics Union (MAAU) president Datuk Seri Shahidan Kassim today asked Olympic Council of Malaysia(OCM) affiliates to support his bid for the OCM presidency in May.
comment:
Enough is enough having politicians to helm in any sports. Just forget it, Shahidan. You just concentrate on your political career as YB and focus more on helping the needs of your constituents. That is more productive.
Tolonglah, jangan banyak angan-angan lagi. You are in the twilight zone, politically. Make no mistake about it!
Nik Aziz Challenges Ibrahim To Re-contest Pasir Mas Seat
KOTA BAHARU, Feb 21 (Bernama) -- PAS spiritual advisor Datuk Nik Abdul Aziz Nik Mat challenged Pasir Mas Member of Parliament (MP) Datuk Ibrahim Ali to quit as MP of the constituency and prove he is still wanted there.
Nik Aziz, who is also Kelantan Menteri Besar, said Kelantan PAS was not worried if chose to do this and that he would "probably lose his deposit" if he tried to stand as an independent candidate in a by-election there.
"The decision by Kelantan Pas asking him to vacate the seat for criticising PAS was taken at meeting of the state PAS liaison committee which I chaired as the commissioner of PAS for Kelantan," he told reporters when met at his home here today.
comment:
Katak Si katak Lompat ! Lompat, lompat, lompat !!he, he,he, kah, kah, kah
That's your trademark, Ibrahim. We are not surprised if you lompat to UMNO camp. We all know that it is in your blood that you are an UMNO loyalist at heart. An UMNO gurkha. So it is timely for you to come back to UMNO. No harm done. You are most welcome. UMNO takkan buang terus anak jatinya walau macam mana "dajal" pun perangai anaknya. You add colour to UMNO politics !!
New Tunku Besar Seri Menanti To Be Appointed Tomorrow
KUALA PILAH, Feb 21 (Bernama) -- Tunku Ali Redhauddin ibni Tuanku Muhriz, the eldest son of the Yang di-Pertuan Besar of Negeri Sembilan Tuanku Muhriz ibni Almarhum Tuanku Munawir and Tengku Aishah Rohani bt Almarhum Tengku Besar Mahmud, will be appointed the ninth Tunku Besar Seri Menanti in a ceremony at the Istana Besar Seri Menanti, near here tomorrow.
Tunku Ali was born in 1977 at the University Hospital, Kuala Lumpur.
He attended school in Kuala Lumpur before going to the United Kingdom to complete his secondary school education at the Marlborough College, Wiltshire.
He graduated with a B.A (Hons) in History and Social & Political Sciences from Cambridge University in 1998.
He started his career at the London office of McKinsey & Company, and subsequently moved back to Kuala Lumpur to serve McKinsey in Asia.
In 2004, he joined Khazanah Nasional Berhad, where he remains today as the Director of Investments.
comment:
Congratulations to newly appointed Tunku Besar Seri Menanti, Tunku Ali.
It is very pleasing to have future Malay rulers who are accademically qualified. It augurs well for the future generation of Malay rulers.
Gerakan Calls For Security Measures For Karpal
KUALA LUMPUR, Feb 21 (Bernama) -- Gerakan has called on the police to immediately step up security measures to ensure the safety of DAP chairman Karpal Singh and his family, and other politicians whose lives have been threatened.
Gerakan secretary-general Teng Chang Yeow said in his statement today that the threat made against the life of the Member of Parliament for Bukit Gelugor and his family "is most shocking in a civilised society".
camment:
Prevention is better than cure. This threat is very serious indeed. Therefore, every effort must be made to check this kind of blackmailing on political leaders.
I therfore urge politicians to restraint themselves from making unnecessary sensitive statements that could lead certain crazy individuals out there to destabilise the security of our country. Don't take it lightly as you can never know when these crazy uncivilised people will strike us when they are out of their mind.
Just look at the behaviour of those who demonstrated in Kuala Kangsar. I just cannot understand how they behaved immediately after their Friday prayer. Beyond my imagination to watch them behaving in such manner.That is very, very unislamic !!
Dear Dr Tun,
First of all, thank you for allowing this blog to be some grounds for mutual discussion. our problems start from not discussing enough.
I'm afraid i have to correct you on several issues:
Regarding item 2, you simply couldn't be further from the truth.
Yes, life under muslims was better. but when you're comparing yourself to those who killed 6 million of our people, it isn't too hard. Arabs, however, killed "mere" thousands and expelled/oppressed the rest. I invite you to listen to the stories of my family, the horrible Farhud in Iraq (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farhud). Other families have other stories, depending on country.
BUT: on countries that weren't cruel to the jews, there are still jews and they are content and israel has good ties with them - e.g. turkey, azerbaijan, uzbekistan... malaysia should be like those and not like the arab countries.
Regarding item 4, why we fight arabs - because they didn't accept the partition plan and want to wipe israel off the map, as they have tried to do ever since 1948. who attacked whom in 1948? did we conquer damascus? besiege amman? march towards cairo? NO. we fought for our survival.
Regarding item 8, the countries in which we lived in, are not home lands. never have been, never will be. after 2,700 years in iraq, we were kicked out of there for no other reason but being jews. we're one people with one homeland. moreover, consider for a moment what this means to the palestinian claim to israel, where most of them have been for 500 years or so at best.
Regarding item 10 - maybe you should suggest that the arab countries and the palestinians accept at least some of the borders drawn by colonials, because they accept no border with israel - it's all 'dar al islam', the land where no kuffar may tread, and certainly can't be israel there.
Regarding item 13 - You'll have to settle for reading the story of the farhud. there were no videos taking place, it was too early. but then again, it was still whole 7 years before 1948, when all jewish land in then-palestine was legally bought from its owners.
Regarding item 20 - Dear tun... tell hamas to compromise, because if they claim all of israel as 'dar al islam', there cannot be peace. it's as simple as that. the best way to do it - is to formally recognize israel. Follow the footsteps of Ataturk. make sure no antisemitism is created where there should be none. you can do it, or you can continue to support dar-al islam and perpetual war. it's the choice for you and all malaysians, where to lead the muslim world to, together with indonesia and pakistan, the rising muslim forces.
Salam Tun,
Izinkan....
//By Adolfhitler on February 20, 2009 3:01 AM
Dear Tun...
nice proposition..
anyway, i dont think its gonna work..
i has a question. Why did Tunku Abd Rahman gave away Singapore to Lee Kuan Yew, while initially he was reluctant.
I heard that on 1 night, he ( TAR) was having a dinner with Lee Kuan Yew in a shipyard. After that dinner, a few days later, he let away Singapore...
any body here knows the story ? huh
regards,
The Fuhrer
Adolf Hitler//
The rationale behind the story is that we have learned the peribahasa "DURI DALAM DAGING" (torn in meat). I am wondering can you get the meaning from this proverb.
Lee Kuan Yew had pursuaded the British to allow him to take over the Singapore Island, the most important port in Asia. If the British does not allow this, he and his gangs will join the Communist. This is how he threathened and frightened the British and robbed the Singapore Island from Tanah Melayu. "Bila beras dah jadi nasi" (chinese proverb - when padi became rice), what do you expect our Tunku Abdul Rahman to do, I am sure Tunku did not want to have any chaos in the country.
When Singapore declared as an independent country, our DAP thought that they too could follow Lee Guan Yew's footstep by robbing the authorithy from the Malays through general election, this was how the misfortune of May 13, 1969 happened.
I am a chinese, a Malaysian citizen, and never like DAP because they are the typical china men who are capable only in fighting for the chinese's right using racism card.
Since you are interested to see how we ride through this storm, please keep yourself attach to chedet and see how we do in our own way of democracy.
Good night Tun.
P/S: Mr Hanan, we do not like to use force or WMDs to get back Singapore because Malaysians love peace and harmony, and we believe in power of god (raw skill) more than power of mankind (highly skilled).
Salam sejahtera Tun,
Rebuilding The Heart Of Israel
Tidak dapat di nafikan, bangsa Yahudi tidak dapat melupakan pembangunan kembali Bait Suci-nya. Selama seribu sembilan ratus tahun, dalam masa pembuangan ke bangsa-bangsa (diaspora), tiga kali sehari mereka berdoa: "May it be Thy will that the Temple be speedily rebuilt in our days..."("..biarlah itu menjadi kehendak-Nya bahawa Bait Suci akan segera dibangunkan di hari-hari kita ini..."). Dan selama seribu sembilan ratus tahun itu, generasi-generasi mereka tidak punya sedikitpun kesempatan untuk mewujudkan keinginan Agama mereka (kerana waktunya belum genap), dan itu juga sebabnya mereka tidak memiliki Imam Besar! Untuk apa imam besar tanpa wilayah kerjanya (Bait Suci)?
Sinagog-sinagog mereka dibangunkan diseluruh dunia sebagai tempat/sarana belajar Hukum Taurat dan juga berdoa, tetapi sama sekali mereka tidak memiliki cara untuk mengikuti aturan beribadah yang benar, sesuai dengan Hukum Taurat, kerana tiadanya Bait Suci yang telah hilang dari keimanan Yahudi sejak di robohkan oleh Jeneral Romawi, Titus pada tahun 70 M.
Perintah dalam Kitab Torah, sebagaimana yang dinyatakan di dalam perintah nombor 613 Kitab Yahudi Talmud tentang tata cara ritual ibadah yang benar, sangat berkaitan dengan keberadaan Bait Suci yang menjadi nadi dari semua bentuk penyembahan bahkan kehidupan bangsa Yahudi itu sendiri.
Sepertiga dari seluruh Kitab Yahudi Talmud tersebut merupakan ritual ibadah yang hanya dapat dilakukan dalam keberadaan Bait Suci yang dibangunkan ditempat asalnya di puncak Moriah. Itulah The heart of Zion, the heart of Israel yang tidak dapat ditawar-tawar lagi .
Mereka mengerti bahawa sebelum Bait Suci berdiri kembali, seluruh bentuk ritual ibadah yang mereka jalani tidak sah secara Hukum Taurat.
Dalam keadaan agama seperti itu, mana mungkin ada orang yang dapat berfikir bahawa bangsa Yahudi boleh atau telah melupakan pembangunan kembali Bait Suci mereka?
Dan demikianlah mereka tetap disibukkan oleh pertentangan mengenai puncak Gunung Moriah sampai waktunya tiba.
setakat ini, kesepakatan damai antara Palestina dan Israel hanya menyangkut "deal-deal" tertentumengenai isu Samaria, Gaza, Yerikho dan Dataran Tinggi Golan, di mana itu sebenarnya hanya mengalih perhatian dari masalah utamanya.
"Batu penjuru" Zakaria 12 - adalah Yerusalem. Dan isu mengenai Yerusalem bukan lah isu politik semata tetapi lebih kepada isu agama bertopengkan politik, bahkan menjadi isu global.
Disinilah titik puncak dari semua nubuatan Kitab Suci di gelar : Peperangan untuk menegakkan "Tahta Daud"
Seluruh dunia saat ini menantikan terjadinya peristiwa, dimana nabi-nabi Tuhan telah menyaksikannya ribuan tahun yang lalu, penggenapan nubuat tentang suatu tempat diatas gunung karang Zion, rebuilding The Jews Temple sebagai The Heart Of Isreal.
Jantung yang berfungsi mengalirkan darah kehidupan kepada "tulang-tulang kering" Isreal.
Dan ketika itu digenapi, ingatlah, beberapa peristiwa nubuatan yang terpenting akan terjadi. Kamudian Antikris akan menyatakan perjanjiannya dengan Isreal segera setelah pengepungan atas Yerusalem. Antikris akan menjadi "penyelamat" yang akan membawa bangsa Yahudi, orang protesten dan orang Katolik kedalam pembentukan "Federation Of Churches" untuk mendukung tindakan selanjutnya, memerintah dunia dari Bait Suci Yerusalem.
Tetapi sebelum itu terjadi, tentu sahaja Bait Suci haruslah dibangunkan telebih dahulu! Kamudian baru masuk masa-masa paling kritikal dalam langkah-langkah pengenapan nubuat tentang akhir zaman.
Renung-renungkanlah apa yang akan berlaku!
saya baru jek balik dari vietnam dan benda yang paling best berlaku kepada kami ialah untuk duduk semeja dengan laskar israel. Kita cuba tak sentuh pasal peperangan tersebut namun begitu mereka agak terkejut kerana orang malaysia tahu keadaan geografi negara mereka. Bila mereka tanya macamana kita tahu secara mendalam, saya cuma boleh cakap yang tempat2 disebutkan tadi selalu keluar di kaca tv.
Mereka nih bercuti ke vietnam selama 2 minggu setelah penat 'berkerja'. Jadi, nak rehat-rehatlah tuh. Oleh kerana itu kita pun takdalah citer pasal perang dan sebagainya. Cuma mungkin bertukar fikiran pasal percutian mereka di vietnam. Benda yang menarik untuk di perhatikan ialah, orang yahudi nih dan orang islam ( kami ) sama-sama tidak makan babi, tidak makan ayam/daging yang tidak disembelih dan sebagainya. Kita duduk satu meja dan makan benda yang sama. Alangkah baiknya sekiranya israel dan palestine dapat buat seperti apa yang kami buat. Dalam hati nih, mungkin ada rasa benci yang mendalam terhadap satu sama lain, tapi alangkah bahagianya kalau rasa benci itu dapat ditolak ke tepi sambil menikmati makanan vegetarian yang terhidang di hadapan kami.
peristiwa diatas membuatkan saya terfikir, sekiranya dapatlah satu force international duduk di tengah-tengah bandar yang bertelagah. Contohnya di Gaza atau Tebing Barat. Kalaulah UN boleh isytiharkan kawasan itu sebagai kawasan larangan senjata kan bagus. Mungkin boleh declare satu zon penampan di sekeliling pusat bandar terbabit. Mungkin juga zon penampan itu di jadikan pusat komersil atau paling tidak di isytiharkan kawasan milik UN. Dengan demikian, saya yakin, tidak ada satu kuasa pun yang mungkin sanggup melancarkan serangan melewati zon penampan.
apa yg berlaku sekarang adalah perkara bodoh yang tidak dapat diterima akal. Bila palestine diserang, orang arab akan jadi mediator. Buat perjanjian sana-sini dan beri bantuan berjuta2 dollar. Namun dengan mudahnya israel membantutkan perjanjian tersebut dengan mengadakan pilihanraya sekerap mungkin ataupun menukar Perdana Menteri bila-bila masa dia suka. Bila ini berlaku, kita berpatah balik kepada NOL.
oleh yang demikian, saya mencadangkan dibuat zon penampan / komersil exclusive di bandar bertelagah. Bila ada benda permanent, barulah israel tak dapat berbuat apa2 walaupun dia acapkali menukar PM mereka.
satu lagi benda menarik dari perbulan kami dengan laskar israel tersebut ialah apabila mereka bertanya berapa popuulasi kita. Saya jawab, 30 juta. Dan apabila saya tanya mereka punya berapa, mereka jawab hanya 6 juta. So, lu pikirlah sendiri.
Assalamualaikum TUN,
kawan- kawan kuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.....sekalian tentangi israel laknatullah..... boikot barangan syaitan israel..... hinalah mereka... celakalah israel, celakalah amerika.... celakalah fatah yang telah mengkhianati bangsa dan agama.......... celakalah mereka dengan perbuatan mereka.......amin...
Dear Tun
while agreeing with your sentiment i feel you overlook one aspect. our muslim brothers whether in palestine or elsewhere are too laid back. that's why the jews, after centuries of persecution, always manage to stay ahead. they will continue to dominate the world economy and u.s. policy for decades to come.
the perverse impact of the fact that most oil reserves sits in the islamic world has added to our sloth.the sons of Ibn Saud are an example of sitting on one's backside.
unless we can multiply leaders of your ilk pretty fast we are doomed.
your tamil admirer
arjunna
Dear Tun,
1. Thank you for the information. You are not just an amazing leader, u also a walking library.
2. But i would like to bring u back to Malaysia. I just want to ask how u rate the Opposition performance in governing for the last 1 year. Do u think that they have the goods to run bigger show?
3. Please give an honest answer or write on blog please (in point form).
4. To me what opposition dont have is money and time. But money can be made if u smart enough but time u cant make. I think Opposition wasting too much time finding faults and punish the BN and got entangled with BN drama. They have forgotten 1 year have wasted and nothing cooking until this moment. And i think they got too many human rights and peace activist who doesnt know the politic game. After 1 year, I think PKR is just bunch of Hippies in the 70s who thinks that they are the self-righteous but got dirt on themselves.
5. They forgot BN is regrouping, Pak Lah is leaving soon, the strength will be restored. The lost supporters will return. And i await to hear Tun says "Is Good To Be Back".
6. Please answer my no.2 question pls.
Salaam Tun,
I truly admire your vision and intellect and to me personally, it is a great "tragedy" to see you leave the helm of Malaysia to your successor.
I honestly hope that one day, Malaysia can see another great leader to steer our beloved country to greater heights/achievements/economic prosperity - insha allah.
http://myviewpoint2u.blogspot.com
Get ready everyone... Hanan is going to provide another long and detailed argument on how right he and israel/zionist is. As far as I am concern, he can go on and waltz his way through his twisted words and logic but as they say, a picture tells a thousand words;
http://www.slide.com/r/Ww-_8t1U6D_ztx8IHcQ5t248CkSFmqIw?previous_view=TICKER&previous_action=TICKER_ITEM_CLICK&ciid=72057594261479938
Everything else are merely words formed by one’s opinion based on his/her own perception of the issue at hand. What we perceived as right and wrong are of course based on what we have been taught and how we were brought up.
In other words, we can't really blame Hanan for feeling the way he feels. He is after all a jew/israel/zionist. He was brought up to be one and no matter what anyone say, he will stand by what he believes no matter how wrong it is. Garbage in - garbage out, simple as that. To Muslims, he will likely burn in hell. To Jews, he will surely end up in heaven. To God? ..only God knows.
Bukit Antarabangsa Residents Grateful
KUALA LUMPUR, Feb 21 (Bernama) -- Bukit Antarabangsa residents today expressed their gratitude for the governmen's RM70 million allocation to stabilise the landslide-hit area.
Bukit Antarabangsa Residents Action Committee chairman Datuk N.Muneandy said the residents in the area were touched and very grateful for the government's efforts to carry out works to stabilise the area.
comment:
Barisan Nasional government delivers. That's the difference with 50 years of administering the govt. Make no mistake about it. Continue support BN govt. Things will become better and better with Pak Lah and cronies out of sight come March.
SORRY TO SAY...BUT I THINK HANAN GOT HIS POINT ON DR. MAHATHIR.
IF YOU ARE MAHATHIR SUPPORTER OF COURSE YOU DON'T LIKE IT.
I SUGGEST ALL OF YOU TO READ THE ISRAEL/PALESTINE HISTORY RIGHT...WHO IS THE REAL OWNER OF THE LAND.
THE TRUTH ALWAYS HURT..!!! PLEASE NOT BE TOO EMOTIONAL...
ACCEPT THE FACT...WE JUST FAIL TO BOYCOTT ANY OF THEIR PRODUCT. COCA-COLA PRICE GOING DOWN..IT A LIE!!! Mc DONALD LOWERING THEIR PRICE...RM5.90 ON LUNCH PACKAGE??? HAVE YOU HEARD OF THING THEY CALL "MARKERTING STRATEGY?".....STARBUCK??? IT FULL EVERYWHERE.... KESIAN ON CERTAIN PEOPLE WHO PUT THEIR COMMENT HERE....THEY JUST LIVE IN HALUSINATION THAT THEY ALMOST DEFEAT THE JEWS...
WELL...CHECK IN THEIR HOUSE...THERE WILL BE JEWS PRODUCT...HEHEHEHE...CAKAP TAK SERUPA BIKIN...LONG LIVE HANAN AND MAHATHIR...!!!
Thailand frees Australian writer
Harry Nicolaides, an Australian writer jailed in Thailand for defaming its monarch, has returned home after being pardoned by the king and set free.
Mr Nicolaides, 41, had been sentenced to three years imprisonment in January.
Images on television of him wearing prison clothes and in chains shocked many Australian viewers, our correspondent says.
Thailand is a constitutional monarchy but has severe lese majeste laws.
comment:
Malaysia should have the same law as in Thailand in order to prevent people from ridiculing our Sultans.
Daulat Tuanku ! Daulat Tuanku ! Daulat Tuanku !
I am a royalist. Make no mistake about it. But I expect the Sultans to be above the law with a sense of responsibilty of the highest order towards the rakyat.
The hart of Zion, The heart of Israel.., " They are the nation now, but they haven't got their Temple worship yet. And when they establish the tample worship, the world will changes"
Bait suci Yahudi di puncak gunung moriah.
Lokasi kontroversi
Pada hari rabu tanggal 07 Jun 1967, beberapa saat setelah tengah hari, tentera Isreal mengambil alih tampuk kuasa atas seluruh kota Yerusalem untuk pertama kalinya dalam dua ribu tahun. Menteri pertahanan Isreal pada waktu itu, Moshe Dayan, adalah salah seorang yang menginjakkan kaki buat pertama kalinya untuk berdoa di Tembok barat dari Bukit Bait Suci, dan menyatakan "Kami telah mengembalikan tempat Maha Kudus kami dan kami tidak akan pernah meninggalkanya kembali". Shlomo Gorn ketua Rabbi dari tentara kamudian meniup "shofar" sebagasi lambang kepercayaan bahawa "...oleh suara sangkakala Bait Suci roboh, dan oleh suara sangkakala juga akan itu akan dibangunkan kembali".
Tetapi empat puluh satu tahun yang lalu, ketika mereka merebut Yerusalem itu, sangat sedikit orang percaya bahawa bangsa Yahudi akan merencanakan kembali pembangunan Bait Suci mereka di Gunung Moriah - dalam bentuk rancangan yang sama seperti Bait Suci Pertama dan Bait Suci Kedua mereka.
Para pemerhati politik dunia akan menyatakan hal itu sebagai sesuatu yang hampir mustahil. Mengapa? Kerana lokasi seluas tiga puluh lima ekar di puncak Gunung Zion, itu di mana pada awalnya berdiri The Temple yang menjadi jantung kota tua Yerusalem telah (dan masih) diduduki secara illegal oleh dua kubah Islam - Dome Of The Rock dan masjid Al-Aqsa dengan megahnya yang selama ini telah menjadi simbol kota Yerusalem.
Pemaksaan Isreal untuk mengambil alih kedua dua wakaf tersebut dan menggantikan dengan Bait Suci Yahudi jelas akan mendapat tentangan hebat dari negara-negara Islam dan juga mengobarkan "jihad" (perang suci) antarabangsa.
Walaupun bangsa Yahudi telah menguasai seluruh kota Yerusalem sejak Perang Enam Hari pada tahun 1967, dan di teguhkan kembali dalam perang pada tahun 1973.
Dan dalam tujuan damainya mereka tetap mengizinkan orang Islam memelihara kedua masjid mereka diatas Bukit Bait Suci sampai waktunya tiba.
Sebaliknya orang Islam mempergunakan konsesi tersebut untuk menolak memberikan akses bagi para arkeloogi dan peneliti Isreal untuk masuk ke wilayah kedua dua masjid tersebut kerana bimbang memberi kebenaran tersebut akan semakin memotivasikan Isreal untuk merekabentuk "The Temple".
Fobia dengan pembangunan kembali Bait Suci Yahudi ini setiap saat menghantui bangsa Palestina dan Arab pada umumnya, pertama kerana kesedaran mereka atas keberadaan yang tidak sah di atas Gunung moriah, dan kedua kerana mereka mempunyi pengalaman yang cukup (sejak ribuan tahun yang lalu) tentang "berurusan" dengan Elohim Isreal yang selalu mengetarkan mereka dari zaman ke zaman dari generasi ke generasi.
Keadaan seperti itulah yang menjadi sumber ketegangan Agama dilokasi tersebut, ditambah lagi dengan masuknya unsur-unsur kristian dan katolik dengan kepentingan agamanya masing-masing menjadikan keadaan di wilayah itu semakin tidak menentu.
Keberadaan kota tua Yerusalem pun terbahagi kepada empat wilayahnya dikuasai oleh fahaman-fahaman yang berbeza, ada wilayah muslim, kristian/katolik dan Yahudi sendiri, Dan masing masing siap untuk mempertahankan wilayahnya dengan bayaran apapun mengingat kehadiran "terhormat" mereka di Gunung Zion.
Belum lagi fahaman atas satu atau dua lokasi yang di kuasai oleh gereja-gereja tertentu: Ortodoks Yunani, Katolik Roma, Ortodoks Armenia dan Yahudi Ethiopia (Falasha), menjadikan wilayah kota tua Yerusalem semakin rawan dengan konflik.
Apakah ada lokasi yang lebih kontroversial dari lokasi Bukit Bait Suci ini di seluruh dunia? Tidak ada!
As long as the United States continue to supply weapons and money to Israel, nothing will change in the middle East conflicts. US will stop the supply only when US is bankrupts. The Arabs can help to bankrupt US by start trading oil in "dinar" or "euro", instead of "US Dollar".
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Anwar: 8 months and no action
by Tim Leonard
PETALING JAYA (Feb 20, 2009): Parti Keadilan Rakyat adviser Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim has expressed disappointment that no action had been taken on the police report he lodged eight months ago alleging abuse of power by Attorney-Gereral Tan Sri Abdul Gani Patail and Inspector-General of Police Tan Sri Musa Hassan over his 'black eye' incident in 1998.
The Parliamentary opposition leader also expressed his disappointment with the newly-minted Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) for failing to take action despite promises of transparency.
comment:
Anwar Oh Anwar ! Kau ni macam badutlah. Kau buatlah pentas drama kat Istana Budaya, Tajuknya "THE BLACK EYE BOY". Mesti ramai peminat datang nak tengok. Hasil dari kutipan harga tiket diserahkan untuk derma kanak-kanak Palestin.
Businessman to contest Bukit Selambau seat
NST newsdesk
Businessman/philanthropist Datuk Thasleem Mohd Ibrahim will contest as an independent for Bukit Selambau state seat in Kedah.
comment:
Ini siapa pulak punya "baruah". UMNO, PKR atau PAS.
'There is evidence Khalid misused powers'
By : Audrey Dermawan
GEORGE TOWN: The Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission (MACC) has found "good and strong evidence" to show that Selangor Menteri Besar Tan Sri Abdul Khalid Ibrahim had misused his powers over the maintenance of his personal car and purchase of 46 cows.
comment:
Charge him in court if there is strong evidence of his wrongdoing.There should not be double standard if ever the new MACC wants its credibility maintained. Or else the forming of the commission is just as haprak and HP6 as the previous ACA. No difference at all.
SAlam to Tun & All,
I dont feel good about this. As much as possible, I want to give the benefit of doubt that Hanan is sincere in writing to yr blog. But deep inside I not able to accept his sincerity. I dont find "sincerity" in his writing. My inner voice says that he has other agenda(s) and this blog will be the mean for him/her.
God Bless All of Us.
Aslmkom Tun,
The Jews had monopolized the US economy and they are also the culprit behind the economic devastation in US now that had affected the world. It is lucky that Malaysia is not fully affected because we have dynamic leaders who are still in the government who learn from you, getting the experience to get out from the economic chaotic situation without relying from outside funding or influence. Now, US and other countries had followed the Malaysian way to tackle such problem. We should be proud to be Malaysian and we, irrespective of races, parties, religion, rich or poor should work together to counter this bad economic situation and get out of there quickly, rather than waste time meddling around with political issues.
Israel is considered by most of us as a terrorist state after what it has done to Palestine & Lebanon. Worse of all, Israel is getting new leaders who seem to be thinking that they have the right to destroy Palestine. But they failed to remember that the lands where the Jews are standing now (a virtual state known as Israel) actually belong to the Palestinian and they are Arab. But the Arabs seem weak because among them they misunderstood each other with full of grudges. Israel made them that way but the Arabian leaders did not realize it.
While we are condemning Israel for the devastation it had done to the people in Gaza and the Arabs as a whole, our media happily showed on air lengthy news about Israel. They even show lengthily the speeches given by Israel leaders perhaps we do not know what they are talking about, as they are not talking Bahasa Malaysia neither they are talking in English. We, as Malaysians who sympathizes the Palestinian who is fighting for their right for freedom and fighting to get back their lands from the colonizers, should refrain from putting news about Israel. In fact, we do not care who their new leaders are and so on. As whoever are Israel leaders, it will make no different, Israel will still be a terrorist state and the most dangerous state on earth.
It is sad that you are no more a Malaysian Premier. If you are still the Premier, may be you could give the Arab leaders the hard slap so that they are awakened from their dreams and they could unite to support their Arabian brothers and sisters in Palestine from being systematically destroyed by Israel. Looking at it, we agree to your opinion that the grudges between Palestinian and Israelis will never be remedied and that it will be dragged for another sixty years.
On our Malaysian scenario, we pray to Allah swt that the country will be stabilized and get out of this economic devastating situation quickly and allow the people to live harmoniously.
We pray to Allah swt for your good health and having the energy to act as guardian to our dynamic new younger leaders moving to the direction of your vision towards the year 2020.
Wasallam.
SALAM AYAHANDA RAKYAT TUN
IZINKAN,
By lcclckAuthor Profile Page on February 19, 2009 7:26 PM
Dear Sir,
I really respect your flair and great intelligence.
WE BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE MORE GRATEFUL RAKYAT LIKE 'LCCLCK' THAN THE LIKES OF HANAN WHO ARE JUST D.U.M.B.(DERANGED, USELESS MENTAL BLOCKED)
HAVE A GOOD WEEKEND AND MAY THE ALMIGHTY BLESS US ALL.
Dear Tun
Greetings and Salutations!
Hope you are in good health.
From the postings in your blogs, it appears that many muslims especially in Malaysia view this as a religious war. You have clarified that it is not. Maybe Tun needs to elaborate more as this message appears to have been lost.
On the Perak constitutional crisis, it is amusing to see people making police reports regarding Karpal and Sivakumar being traitors etc.
However Tun's action albeit "legally" removing the Monarch's immunity and most of their inherent powers is an act akin to striping the Monarchs bare in public. I wonder at that time how many police reports were lodged against Tun?
Salam Tun & fellow bloggers,
1.Telah tersebut berulang kali di dalam Al-Quran tentang kekejaman dan kerosakan oleh Yahudi
2.Allah menciptakan Yahudi lebih bijak daripada manusia lain untuk menguji keimanan hambaNya
3.Tidak ada sesiapa dapat mengubah sikap Yahudi dan berterusan hingga Qiamat
4.Umat Islam hendaklah berhati-hati dengan dakyah Yahudi yang telah menguasai banyak sektor dalam kehidupan moden
5.Mudah-mudahan kita semua dilindungi Allah daripada kekejaman Yahudi.Amin
Wassalam
Dear Hanan,
I do agreed with you on some point, but as Dr. M said in order for us to live in peace and harmony we need to compromise. Palestinian Arab need to sacrifice some from them and Jews either. The classic example is Malaysia, although Malays representing 60% of total population of Malaysia but still need to sacrifice some of their interest for the benefit of the whole country. With this, then we shall be live in peace and harmony forever.
Unfortunately, reading your comments, I found that you managed to twist the facts to be on your side. Yes you absolutely right in some of your arguments but please don't make comments truly based on your perception. We need to open our mind to others view even it was totally contrary to our view (which is I truly believed you also agreed with me, hence you also have practised anyway). To be frank with you, the whole that we talking about is not between Judaism against Islam, it is between the Arab Palestinian who their land being robe by Jewish people.
Furthermore, not all the Jewish are supporting the establishment of Israel state right? Thus I truly believed that you have no right to represent the Jewish as a whole, you can claim that you representing the Zionist right?
I'm surely believed that you will come out with 1001 reasons to support your point of view, and this will be end.
BUSTANUL BISTARI BEY
salam buat ayahanda tun sekeluarga
just want to say pls continue your writings
as i always enjoy reading them
and also to compliment on "this article"
i agree with whatlcclck/pl said on 19Feb09 7:26pm
many who opposed you hated you but deep inside,
they feared and respected you
yes, it is been quite a while since my last comment
as i more enjoy reading them then leave one
FYI, reading your blog is in my daily routine..
lastly, may Allah bless you and your family.......always
take a great care of your health to both tuns....
(love to see former number one couple but
in my eyes both of you still is (what former number one??))
until then....
Dearest Tun,
Tun said: “20. Dear Hanan, tell your Government to compromise.”
1. Dear Hanan, please listen to Tun. You CAN NEVER WIN THIS ARGUMENT even with the “help” of everyone in Israel. Take your time in responding to Tun’s entry. We are in no hurry.
2. Tun, this is a hopeless situation. We are trying to convince someone who has made up his/her mind about this issue. Dia ni dalam kategori yang ada “MENTAL BLOCK”. I believe this person would say that if he/she does it, it is “GOOD”, but if we do the same thing, it is “BAD” or “HINA”. We also have people like this in Malaysia.
May Allah SWT bless Tun and family.
-Shalom from Hajar-
Karpal gets death threat and live bullets in mail
GEORGE TOWN: Two live bullets and a death threat was mailed to DAP chairman Karpal Singh’s house in Jalan Utama here.
comment:
Why people are daring enough to threaten your life, Karpal. I think it is all because of your "mulut lancang" trying to ridicule the Sultan's decision not wanting to dissolve the state assembly. Your basis of argument is strictly on legal point of view but you must understand and be sensitive that the Malays love their Sultan and most of them are very strong royalist including me. So with your kind of arrogance they simply cannot swallow it.
Anyway, this kind of threat is very serious and the police must investigate who are the culprit(s) and reprimand them.
Tun.
Minta izin nak komen sikit tentang Naib ketua wanita UMNO telah di menangi Datuk Kamalia Ibrahim tanpa bertanding. 'Ibrahim' lagi.....
Saya kurang senang lah dengar nama 'Ibrahim'ni. Dah ramai sangat anak2 'Ibrahim' ni dalam politik Malaysia. Saya kuatir anak pompuan Ibrahin ni pun kut tak leh percaya.
Annuar Ibrahim, Khalid Ibrahim, Zaid Ibrahim, dan kini adik pompuan mereka Kamalia Ibrahim.
Kak Shahrizat dah bolih ker memimpin wanita ni. Kata dulu tak nak lawan tokeh. Tiba2 ubah haluan pulak. Takut pulak nanti yang di kejar tak dapat yang di kendung keciciran. Apa2 pun bolih berlaku...
Datuk Kamalia tentu lah dah bolih buat kenduri...
Saya tak berminat pun soal wanita ni, cuma jeling2 saja. Tak kisah lah sipa pun ketua nya.
Khir wants menteri besar to quit
SHAH ALAM: Selangor opposition leader Datuk Seri Dr Mohd Khir Toyo said Selangor Menteri Besar Tan Sri Abdul Khalid Ibrahim should resign his post if he was charged in court for using state funds to maintain his personal vehicle and purchasing 46 cows worth RM110,400 for his own interest.
comment:
Hey, Khir Toyo !! You pun 2 X 5 juga!! UMNO wants you to step down from being leader of Selangor BN. You are just useless leader for causing the downfall of BN govt.
‘Keep Rulers above political fray’
PETALING JAYA: The best way to uphold the country’s system of constitutional monarchy is for all parties to keep the Rulers above the political fray, said DAP adviser Lim Kit Siang.
He said Barisan Nasional and Pakatan Rakyat leaders should co-operate to keep the palace above the political crisis in Perak, as the issue in contention was not the institution of constitutional monarchy but the popular will of the voters.
“The best and most democratic solution is to return the mandate to the voters of Perak by the dissolution of the state assembly, and for a fresh state election to be held to resolve the political and constitutional crisis,” he said in a statement yesterday.
Lim also said that Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi and Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak must act as leaders for all Malaysians and resist the temptation to use the powers of the Federal Government to deny the people of Perak their democratic right to resolve the political crisis in the state.
comment:
Why need to dissolve the state assembly? Put it the other way round, Kit Siang, lets assume if BN were the state government and Pakatan were the opposition, would Pakatan dissolve the assembly if it is in the same position as BN now.
I am cocksure no way Pakatan will dissolve the assembly. Don't be hypocrite, Kit Siang. You always "cakap tak serupa bikin punya".
Dear Tun,
Firstly we must also blame ourselves for lacking in muslim unity.
Because we muslim are not united, others are taking advantage of it.
Perhaps, if you can advise our muslim brothers and sisters on how best to achieve this unity, it would be more effective than going to war with the USA/Israel ?. (it was a joke !!! I hope from you)
However, with your strong connections and networks, am pretty sure many would listen and act for an economic war perhaps ?,,,,indeed would be more effective too !. (this am serious)
The Israelis, who once demanded that their enemies negotiate with them, now themselves refuse to negotiate. This is indeed a simple tactical ploy. They have no wish to make peace with the Palestinians because there are no concessions they are willing to offer. They will concede nothing, neither land nor political authority. On the contrary, they insist on the Jews' continued right to seize more land from the Arabs to build new settlements.
PirateKing
Gun shock at power deal talks
By : Marc Lourdes
KUALA LUMPUR: Is business in Malaysia looking down the barrel of a gun? Judging by what an independent power producer (IPP) tried to pull with a Tenaga Nasional Bhd (TNB) subsidiary recently, it looks like it.
The incident occured during negotiations between TNB subsidiary Sabah Electricity Sdn Bhd (SESB) and the IPP on Thursday afternoon.
The IPP is also said to be Sabah-based.
Present were 14 people, including TNB officers, representatives from the IPP and the TNB subsidiary, as well as lawyers and an official from the Energy, Water and Communications Ministry.
The discussion was to thrash out a deal for TNB to purchase power from the IPP, which has a 100MW capacity.
The going was tough and one of the SESB officials told the IPP representatives not to twist their arms.
comment:
Who is this idiot Dato'? This is crazy ! These IPP companies are really causing pain in the ass to TNB. Enough is enough. It is rather pitiful for TNB to deal with these "crooks" being more or less holding TNB to ransom. IPP companies seem to believe that they are having the upper hand and could twist their arms with TNB in the negotiation table.
It is just unfortunate that the consumers are being made suckers by these IPP compnies because of the "perceived" lopsided agreement betweem IPP and TNB.The consumers are being deprived from getting reasonably cheap electricity.
The govt. must act fast to rectify the lopsided agreement so that it will be a win-win situation for everybody particularly the consumers. It seems that TNB funds are bleeding profusely for payments made for the "invisible" service rendered by IPP. This is totally unacceptable when the current economic situation is in bad shape.
I think the govt. should nationalise the IPP companies, period. After all the funds to erect the power plants came from foreign banks which are now technically bankrupt. The IPP companies should renegotiate with these technically bankrupt banks for better deals. They should do the arm twisting with the banks rather than with TNB.
Dear Hanan,
Thank you for reading this blog. I hope you can invite your dear friend, Obama to do the same.
Hopefully, this blog can shed a light on your mind and your dear friend on what is the actual fighting in Gaza is about. Sometimes, I wonder why is it people of the USA and the Zionist hard to understand that those palestinians are just fighting for their rights, for their homeland.
When Obama won the presidential election, the entire world happy for it as they hope for a new change in the US government. Now, everyone is waiting to see what Obama can do to solve this problem. I wonder if he's afraid to act in anyway which would hurt the zionist's interest.
From Obama's background, I personally think, he, among other former US presidents, would understand better. But mere understanding is not enough if no action is taken out.
I also want to take this opportunity to thank my beloved prime minister, Tun Dr Mahathir for his blog. This blog really helps a lot of people, especially Malaysians, to express their view.
I haven't had the chance to meet him personally, which I wish I would someday, I feel this blog helps me to interact to him directly.
Sincerely,
Anilza
TUN.
Ini lah contoh nya bila negara seperti Palesti dan Israel tidak ada kuasa "SULTAN". Kuasa rakyat bolih melakukan sesuka hati. mengikut selera pemimpin2 tanpa ada suatu kuasa yang lain yang bolih mengibangi sesuatu keputusan. Kerana itu Malaysia agak unik kerana kuasa Sultan maseh relevan walau pun tertakluk dibawah " kuasa Perpembelagaan".
Izunkan ingin menyentuh sedikit renteten poltik tanah air yang sedang melanda ketika ini. Sudah pun 11 bulan berlalu nya PRU12 tapi parti2 politik maseh belum 'settle down'. Maseh ada ribut yang melanda disetengah pehak.
Bermula dari usaha Lompat Katak AI pada 16/9 yang telah pun gagal sehingga kini maseh kedengaran katak melompat.
Selepas PR tumbang di Perak, berbagai incident dan senario di cetuskan kerajaan PR(PKR) telah menyerlahkan kelemahan mereka.
Pemimpin2 mereka bertindak menderhaka pada keputusan Sultan.
Menyaman Sultan. Membuat tuduhan2 liar dan menyalahkan apa yang berlaku disebabkan UMNO/BN.
Tapi ada juga mereka berbalahan sesama sendiri.
Apa pun dari semua rentetana itu dapat lah kita membuat rumusan dan gambaran sebenar nya perlakuan pemimpin2 PR terutama PKR. Mereka tidak pernah menghormati undang2 dan perlembagaan negara.
Tapi apa yang berlaku alkhir ini. Kita disajikan pula berita ada kalangan mereka kena ugut bunuh lah dapat peluru hidup lah.
Dapat tawaran 5 juta lah.DLL.
Kesimpulan nya. Apabila sesuatu keadaan tidak memihak atau mengikut selera mereka, mereka sanggup buat apa sahaja walaupun melanggar undang2. Polis dan mahkamah akan dipersalahkan dan dipertikaikan. Arahan polis tidak diendahkan. Mereka bergitu kuat(bila ramai sahaja) Tapi bila mereka ada berlaku ancaman atau kusulitan peribadi, mereka akan pergi ke POLIS,SPRM dan MAHKAMAH untuk meminta menyelesaiakan masaalah mereka.
Jika masaalah ini tidak memuasakan hati mereka, mereka akan menyangah akan pehak ini. Ini lah watak2 dan permaianan mereka.
Pada kritikan di buat pada mereka, mereka akan menyaman pula untuk menutup mulut2 yang mengeritik. Tapi konon nya mahukan bebes bersuara. Mereka merepek2 menuduh dan memfitnah orang tak apa. Tidak salah. Orang lain buat tak bolih. Seolah2 undang2 hanya untuk melindungi mereka sahaja, dan akan menyanggah undang2 itu bila tidak dapat memihak pada mereka. Hingga kan Ketua Hakim pun di fitnah dan dikecam.
Berginikah rupa parti yang melaung2kan keamanan ,keadilan dan sebagainya. Hanya untuk menyedap telinga rakyat sahaja. Tapi sebalik nya mereka mengajar rakyat mendurhaka pada Sultan. Mengajar menghina mahkamah.Mengajar membeklakangi undang2. Bersikap ganas dan kurang ajar.
Mereka tidak fikirkan majoprity rakyat mahukan suasana yang aman, tenteram dan keselamtan. Apa yang telah mereka lakukan semua nya menjurus kepada tidak aman,tidak tenteram pada rakyat. Rakyat mersakan tidak selamat bila mereka mula berdemonstrasi di jalan2.
Bagaimana jika mereka berkuasa penuh memerintah? Apa kah mereka kan mencipta undang2 hanya memihak pada kepentingan mereka sahaja?
Harap rakyat dapat melihat keadaan sebenarnya permainan poltik PR terutama PKR dan DAP. Usah lah hanya pandai becakap politik tapi tidak pula bijak melihat lebih dalam apa yang ada dalam politik itu.
Terbaru SPRM telah lengkap kertas siasatan keatas MB Selangor atas tuduhan salah guna kuasa. PKR lagi.......Parti kelirukan rakyat.
salam Tun,
the world is a stage. this war seems like the remake of Shakespeare's the merchant of Venice, with the Jews as Shylock, the Muslims as Muslim version of Antonio and special appearance of USA as Tubal, Shylock's friend. only the deaths are real. the pain are real, cannot be ended after they bow to the audience. i hope Allah S.W.T. will give hidayah to the Jews and that they will submit to Him.
anie
Assalamualaikum Tun,
Harap Tun dapat ulas keadaan politik di negeri Perak. Semakin lama saya melihat apa yang dilakukan oleh Pakatan Rakyat (PR) semakin bahaya dari semua segi.
Terima kasih.
Selamat berjuang Tun !!
Shalom Hanan:
Logically elegant, mathematically consistent but sorry to say Hanan that you are giving the right answers to the wrong questions.
The Jews gave the Bible to the world, preaching about Peace and Love but who exactly killed Jesus by convincing the Romans to crucify him? I don't think it was the Muslims or the Christians but it was the Jews. One other thing, Hanan, I've heard a couple of Jews once told me that (hmmm...I still wonder if they were joking or being serious about it) Moses was a fool! Of all the lands that Moses could had chooses after crossing the Red Sea and years of walking in the wilderness, he lead the Jews to Palestine? Why not Saudi Arabia or Iraq....it's rich with oil! Killing Jesus and calling Moses a fool....duh!
Hanan, I don't know how to speak in Hebrew or Yiddish and I wonder if you are a Sabra but at least I know how and who actually masterminded the Belfore Treaty.
I have to admit that the Jews are brilliant people (take a look at the "Who's Who" of the Nobel Prize Winners) but why don't they use the God-given intelligent to make this world a better place? Speaking about the Holocaust, I don't think that the Muslims was involved. But I still wonder why Hitler and the Nazis hated the Jews to such an extend.
Your "Military Bible" was a gift from "Givaret" Malcom, an officer of the British Military Force before the Independence of Israel. It does makes an interesting reading but if ever I go to war, I rather not practice what's was taught by Major Malcom.
I could tell you much more, Hanan, but I don't see the point of wasting my time trying to convince someone who is not ready to compromise. Hanan, to speak with you, I first have to look at 2 sides. Firstly, your side of the argument and secondly, the outside of the room. You don't believe in a "win-win" situation. You only want to win all the time, even if you are on the wrong side of the road and a 16 wheel lorry is just around the next corner heading your way....LOL!
No hard feelings, ok Hanan, I'm just saying my peace and hailing from a small kitbutz, you are probably more intelligent than me. Probably :-)
Salam Tun,
1. The State of Palestine existed for centuries where Palestinian and Jews have lived and struggle together for freedom against British rule.
2. When Israel was born 60 years ago in the land of Palestine. The population had been increased rapidly by mass Jews migration from all over the world since holocaust.
3. The question is, shouldn’t they live side by side with the Palestinian where they mostly came from Arab neighbors?
4. As matter of fact, it was their failed Zionism ideology that led gruesome never ending war against one nation.
5. Please give peace a chance and learn from us, the true successful democratic system had been dominated since independence.
That's Reality!!
Dear Sir,
I am one of your admirers. I admire your intelligence and sharpness and also your unwavering tongue.
Rather than spent your fading age commenting on local politics why don't YAB be above politics and look at the following:-
1. Look at ways of enhancing our mutual coexistence in Malaysia to the next level.
2. Explain to Malaysians how a muslim thinks.
3. Promulgate "ummatan wasatan" of muslims to non muslims.
4. Look at factors that need to be inculcated to take actual mutual coexistence with respect to the next level.
I think only you YAB can do this as you have admirers within muslims and non muslims alike. Only you can spearhead this project.
We need to assure this country can provide for our future generations and the only way is through actual mutual respect to co-exist.
Your take YAB.
Ayub Mohammed.
Hi Hanan,
A humble request from me, perhaps you may want to do some research from Al-Quran. You will find yourself more lively and meaningful.
This is not a joke but just merely to encourage you to make some comparison on certain statement that you made. You will definately find from there.
InsyaAllah, the truth will prevail !!!
Good night to Tun and all of u.Tun, the person name HANAN actually one type of devils.As what i now about Israel or Jewish is the group of human without feeling like care ,respect ,loving and everything about them we can read and check in the Al.Quran , even Nabi muhammad ask us not be friend with them.This human really sick.....................and want everybody to believe every single word from their mouth .Tun,as long we now their true colour and we must believe ALLAH always with us.Any way we must learn from the mistake and prepare how to solve all the problem .May Allah blessing us.....................amin.
Salam Sejahtera kepada Tun dan Keluarga.
Tun you simply the best.
1)Bayang kan lah kalau bukan Tun yang memimpin Malaysia dah lama tanah tanah kita di Singapura tergadai. Sebab kebijaksanaan dan keberanian Tun lah tanah KTMB di Singapura dapat di selamat kan.
2)Sekarang ni pemimpin kita sombong dan bongkak tak makan nasihat.Tengok apa dah jadi rakyat sangat sengsara.negara bengkrup.
3)Dahulu aman sekarang banyak jenayah.
4) mengapakah kita begini?
5)Kami sangat berharap setelah Pak Lah undur kegemilangan,kecermelangan Malaysia dapat dipulih kan.
TUN KEMBALI LAH MEMIMPIN KAMI.INSHA ALLAH.
Tun... The Zionist are truely the enemy of human civilization...
We fight against NEW WORLD ORDER!
Salam Tun dan Toh Puan,
saya lihat, poltik tanah air, bertambah teruk dan rakyat dah bertambah bosan dgn main wayang dan cakap-cakap di dalan dewan parlimen (cakap ape aje, tak kena saman punye!).
Dengan sekendal sex dan bagi lembu di luar negeri selangor, 4 negeri siap ugut kerajaan pusat, dan mengumumkan defisit belajawan kerajaan negeri yang teruk....
Saya perhatikan Tun seorang yang beribawa dan perlu membantu memberi idea untuk membangunkan negara. Tetapi pemimpin sekarang buta dan pekak telinga tak dapat lihat KEHABATAN TUN!
Rakyat bosan Tun, rakyat dah jemu asyik bercakap ajeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!
Tak ada kerja lain!, Macam PKR menaggap mentadbir negara macama mentadbir dapur masak ...
Mereka yang bodoh dan tak ada otak di campur dengan kerajaan pusat yang lembab dan kaki rasuah, cukup! cukup! cukup! lah dengan sandiwara negara sana sini! Buat kerja lah.
Tun tolonglah kami di sini, kami perlukan pertolongan Tun untuk membangunkan negara tercinta ini.
It takes 2 to tango....
To initiate a war a to find peace after war also require both sides cooperation...
What is gained by killing those innocent people either Jews or Muslims?
How long is this gonna continue?
How many generations more will suffer?
why can't both sides tolerate? Give & take, is it too much to ask for?
It's not a war between religion, but a war between the leadership of the opposing sides..
Just remember, IT TAKES TWO TO TANGO...
Salam Ayahanda Tun.
1) Saya sangat tertarik dengan penerangan Ayahanda Tun, walaupun terpaksa merujuk kepada kamus.
2) Boleh tak kiranya Ayahanda Tun terjemahkan dalam Bahasa Melayu. Sebab ianya sangat bagus untuk rujukan terutama pelajar kita dan orang orang seperti saya.
3) Terima Kasih.
Dear Tun Dr M,
I sincerely salute you being the leader who kept Malaysia under your control for a very long period of time and peacefully. Only
2 controversies for more than 20 years is certainly an accomplishment to be proud off. You were also a near perfect politician emulated by many upcoming leaders not only from Malaysia but also from around the globe.
The past three weeks have been full of action,tension, controversy, arm twisting, drama etc. etc. The direction the Malaysian arena is heading to is mostly biased. How come some of the leaders are taking the risky route when they can actually do whatever they want gradually. The risky route even though is fast but the stake and risk is very high.
when khir toyol is accused for 20 corruption cases for so long ... no action taken until so now ...
when Tun claims that the tingkat 4 abusing their power, no action taken so far ...
when Tun claims there are 900 corruption cases reported on UMNO member for buying votes, no action taken so far
however, BPR is so efficient and make statement that the Khalid (Menteri Besar of Selangor), will be charged soon becoz of the lembu issue
aduhh! ... not sure how BPR is handling cases based on the priority ... from my point of view, Khalid is charged at the first place compared to other UMNO members, is mainly becoz he is not handsome?
Salam, nak buat hapa ajak si Hanan ni ke Malaysia, nanti dia buat kacau. Di mana mereka berada, disana nanti mereka buat kacau. Kalau di US, bulan Oct, Nov, di TV akan siar pasal holocaust. Bagi orang2 US yang kurang ilmu, akan berasa amat simpati terhadap mereka, very dramatic.
Saya setuju dengan crocodog. Jangan lupa jemput orang2 PKR, lebih2 lagi yang berbaring dijalan dengan bendera palestine. Jangan segan, boleh baring depan tank2 israel, mati syahid.
The Quran said, " Walls and trees will be talking, there is a jew hiding behind me", and they are 'talking' to us now. Obviously they are everywhere informing us where they are at, even at che det's blog. mmmmpphhh.
TQ.
Hi Tun,
As I read the bickering going on between you and Hanan, it only confirms that all of you don't understand the meaning of war in human history. All you are trying to do is to retrace or roll back the initial conditions that existed before a war! Land doesn't historically belong to anybody! It has always belonged to the victor of wars! We choose peace because we have to ask our selves whether all the sufferings and killings in a war are worth it or not. That is why a lot of outcomes of war have always been temporary solutions because after a while the horrors of war get forgotten and humans gear up for war again. If you want peace, stop all wars and move on. If not, fight to the death but then don't talk about civilised rules of war! Mass exterminations, etc as during Genghis Khans time should then become acceptable behaviour as have beheadings in the Muslim countries! So which is it? Fight like mad pigs to the death or move on?
Dear Tun,
Karpal Wants Royal Commission To Investigate Kulim Shooting Case
KULIM, Feb 20 (Bernama) -- The opposition will move a motion in Parliament for the setting up of a Royal Commission to investigate the shooting of six suspected criminals by the police in Kampung Kemunting here four days ago.
DAP chairman Karpal Singh said the setting up of the commission was crucial as it would allow the Inspector-General of Police, Tan Sri Musa Hassan, to clarify to the families of the six victims, as well as the people, on the incident.
comment:
Typical of opposition parties who are fond of having Royal Commission for every damn thing.The police is doing their job professionally to maintain law and order. I thought they always blame the police for being inefficient for the increase in the crime rate. Now when the police took the necessary action to curb crime they accused the police for the shooting. Podaaah !!
I would like to congratulate the police for their prompt action. There are a lot more criminals out there. Tangkap dan buru mereka sampai ke lobang cacing !!
Hanan,
From your writings you keep telling us you want peace. May I suggest to you to come to Malaysia?
Here in Malaysia, you will see that there are many races from Malays, Chinese, Indians, Kadhazans, and many more. You will find that even though that Malaysia is a multiracial country we can live in peace and harmony with one another. Out of respect for each other, we even have public holidays for each race. For example, the Muslims would have the Hari Raya Aidifitri, the Chinese would have the Chinese New Year and the Indians Deepavali. And there are many other holidays but I'm just naming the major ones. And it doesn't stop there. During the Hari Raya, we also invite other races to join during the Open House. Indeed, when other races have their public holidays, they too invite other races to join. For your information, during the Open House everyone from the various races would gather and eat and enjoy each others company. It is a sight to behold.
There are many other things to see in Malaysia, but I wouldn't want spoil the fun for you and let you explore Malaysia yourself.
For your country, you have only one other race and that is the Palestinians. Its a wonder how we in Malaysia with so many races are able to live in peace and harmony while you, having only have the Palestinians that are different from you and you still cannot live in peace.
So you say you want peace but fail to understand why you cannot get peace?
Maybe its due to the illegal settlements to get more land? Maybe its due to the building of walls that separate the Jews and the Palestinians? Maybe its due to the attacks using tanks, warplanes, chemical weapons on innocent Palestinians not sparing even the women, children and babies? Bombings on houses, hospitals and even UN Buildings. Maybe its due to the blockade that prevent the Palestinians to get food and medical supplies?
I'm just guessing here, I may be wrong.
You may argue all you want to justify Israel's action on the killing of innocent Palestinians, but unless your government change its ways of doing things, you will never have the peace you so long desire.
And that Hanan, is the most terrible consequences to have for any Israelis.
Hi all...
I got one suggestion...let all the jews own this world...
i bet u they will end up fighting and killing among themselves also....
STOP BELIEVING PEACE IN PALESTINE COZZ THEY WONT BE ONE...PERMANENT
peace...
Salam Tun,
Thank you for writing the open letter above. It is very beutifully articulated.. Thank you Allah for bestowing us Malaysians an honorable leader such as you . I could not help it but wish to reply on the comment made by fellow commentator above .
By wadiAuthor Profile Page on February 20, 2009 4:15 PM
cool am 1st?
US should give their state to the israel ppl - agree
My comment; Dear wadi, Russian had given a big piece of land to the jewish for them to live, i could not remember the name, but then maybe you could googled it.
The Zionist do not want just a land. They want the 'Promised Land'. They want the land to be all theirs when their leader descend/ascend to rule the world.... remember "New World Order" It is believed that they are trying to locate the Temple of Solomon as it harnest something that is so special for them.
The site http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daxnUMUnolc&feature=related
will explain a lot on what is happening now.
The Series of ' The Arrivals" which i think should be watched by all of us whether you are a believer or not.
Thank you
from shako
salam Tun n yr family,
i really apprecite your ideas.we badly need people with great mind like u. it is pity to hanan for allowing her negative mind to control over her soul.i wonder even if tun were to give long n unwinded explaination, yet for her to see the light at end of the tunnel.unless she is sincere enough only than truth will prevail.common sense tells us that we should be cautious about accepting a claim when the person making the claim is biased or has some other obvious motive to lie or misled. so let put a stop to what hanan had said just continue with your great ideas.anything bad perception about islam need to be corrected. it is our duty to stand up and tell the truth. as what stated in Quran..if we help to spread the teaching of Allah the Almighty than only Allah will shower his assistances to us. so let us checked within ourself how far we really follow the tennets of alquran the way practiced by our beloved nabi Mohammad saw. May Allah give u n family his blessing ,guidance and strength.
Assalamualaikum Tun,
Mohon Izin ................
1. Ada yang menulis dalam blog ini pasal cerita rusa dengan gajah. Jahil betul kiasan yang dibuat macam tak baca sejarah langsung. Kalau nak tulis cara kiasan tu bolih tapi jangan salah fakta. Baca sejarah banyak2 dan dapatkan maklumat yang betul seberapa bolih, kemudian barulah buat komen. Barulah nampak macam berilmu kalau tidak macam budak sekolah rendah saje.
2. Sebaliknya jika difikirkan secara positif semua ini bolih juga diterima. Jangan putus asa, the advice is to continue participating in this blog. Cuba lagi selagi bolih. We sometimes learn thru' mistakes and hardwork. Tak kisahlah orang nak kata apa pun yang penting teruskan cuba dan mencuba pasti dapat kejayaan.
Tun, cuma satu lagi nasihat secara kasar. Terima kasih semoga Allah merahmati kita semua.
Juno.
The following extracts from Lloyd Geering, Who Owns the Holy Land? published in the magazine of the Westar Institute in 2002 provide some independent verification of points you make on Palestine and the Philistines:-
1. Who were the indigenous people of the Holy Land? No one can say! Being the bridge between Africa and Asia this land was inhabited from very early times. But the earliest inhabitants of whom we have any historical knowledge were the Canaanites. They were a Semitic people, basically of the same stock as the Phoenicians, who occupied ancient Lebanon. …The language known as Hebrew, originated as the language of the Canaanites.
2. It was not until a common enemy arrived on the scene that the Israelites and the Canaanites eventually became integrated into one people.
3. The common enemy were the Philistines. These were not a Semitic people but a highly cultured people of Greek origin, who landed on the Mediterranean coast in the twelfth century bce.
4. … the Philistines were finally forced back to their coastal cities. There their power and influence remained until Roman times. That is why the Romans called the Holy Land Palestina — the land of the Philistines.
5. The Jews of the Diaspora have been frequently discriminated against, much more in the Christian world than in the Islamic world
6. The Ummayyad caliph 'Umar II imposed humiliating restrictions on his non-Muslim subjects, particularly the Christians. That is why many Christians in the Holy Land converted to Islam. These conversions to Islam, together with a steady tribal inflow from the desert, changed the religious character of Palestine's inhabitants. The mainly Christian population gradually became predominantly Muslim
7. Up until World War I Muslim, Christian and Jew lived in complete harmony in the Holy Land. Within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem each had their own quarter, and each had their own holy places and respected those of the others. Even the Russian migrants had been accepted in the 1880's without any protest. The decision made by the Western conquerors undermined that harmony
Dear Tun,
HANAN,UPHEAVELS AND KILLINGS SERVE THE INTERESTS OF THE WEST MORE!
I sicerely hope the arguement you put forth to Hanan could enlighten him and more importantly, prick his conscience to the injustices that have befallen the Palestine people.Sadly though,I doubt very much he has any conscience at all.Or,for that matter whether the State of Israel,per say,could do much to change the course of events even if it wishes to!
2.'The Killing Fields'will go on and on as long as the West is dependent on the Middle-East for its oil.A really 'peaceful'oil producing Middle-Eastern region will be detrimental to the interests of the West.Historically, it is an old game being played over and over again ;pitting one party against another to create opportunities for exploitations and plunders by the West.
3.Remember how the British exploited the feuds among those who were eyeing for the thrones in the various Malay Sultanates? The end result;colonialism.
Assalamualaikum Tun.
Sambung cerita pasal buku 'Sistem Politik Islam'.
Saya tertarik untuk ingat berkenaan buku tersebut kerana masa sekolah dulu saya ada terbaca tentang pandangan Astora Jabat pasal perkara taat dan patuh pada pemerintah dalam akhbar.Di mana Astora Jabat sekarang?
Sebagai pelajar yang naif,pastinya saya sedikit keliru bagaimana nak turuti dasar tersebut bilamana sesuatu kerajaan itu tidak efektif,macam kerajaan Pak Lah la sekarang ni la.
Dalam buku itu pun dasar tersebut perlu diikuti atas alasan nak jaga keamanan dan ketenteraman rakyat.Kesimpulannya,dasar berkenaan kelihatan begitu defensive pada pandangan mata saya sendiri.
Begitu juga perbincangan-perbincangan di antara cerdik pandai di kaca tv dan di corong-corong radio.Penerangan yang defensive.
Saya pasti akan pandangan saya ini tidak terdapat di mana-mana buku politik Islam,bahawa dasar taat dan patuh pada pemerintah bukan setakat defensive bahkan lebih kepada offensive.
Saya tidak tertarik untuk menyatakan perkara yang berkaitan offensive.Sekadar untuk merekodkan bahawa dasar yang terdapat dalam politik Islam cukup elok untuk tujuan offensive,cuma tidak dijumpai mungkin.
Saya lepak kat sini pun sebab Tun Mahathir Mohamad boleh menapis pandangan-pandangan yang diutarakan,yang mana tiada tertulis dalam mana-mana buku.
Terima kasih Tun.
Salam Tun dan Keluarga,
i received email from my friend, here i wanna share why the jews so smart..
Disebalik Musibah
Menemui saudara ku sekelian, baru baru ini sekali lagi Yahudi bermaharja lela membantai penduduk Gaza, tanpa merasa belas kasihan, ini dapat difahami kerana bagi kaum Yahudi, Palestin adalah negeri mereka, walaupon dari segi sejarah, memang mereka tahu, Israel memang bukan milik mereka yg mutlak, terima kasih kepada kerajaan British yg. memberi mereka penempatan selepas dihalau oleh Hitler pada perang dunia kedua. Tak perlulah saya mengulang lagi peri laku kaum Yahudi yang sekian lama di halau oleh umat manusia dari zaman Firaun lagi, berjuta juta kaum Yahudi telah dibunuh, tiada suatu bangsa didunia ini yang dibunuh begitu ramai dimuka bumi ini dan kini telah muncul pula di Amerika,kumpulan anti Yahudi , kerana mereka (pribumi Amerika)telah mulai sedar yang mereka telah menjadi hamba dibawah telunjuk Yahudi (Proxy) Hanya masa akan menentukan peledakan dimana kaum Yahudi pula akan menemui penghalauan beramai ramai keluar dari bumi Amerika, mustahil? Jika anda lihat sejarah, tiada apa yang mustahil akan berlaku terhadap kaum Yahudi.
Setelah memantau beberapa lelaman web saya ada terbaca tesis mengenai kaum Yahudi dan saya tertarik untuk membaca dan menterjemahkanya ke bahasa Melayu, semuga ianya dapat memberi menafaat kepada kita dan jenerasi mendatang. Janganlah kita dok mengutuk kaum Yahudi terus terusan, sedang badan dunia (UN) tak dapat melakukan sesuatu. Pembantaian secara zalim diGaza akan segera dilupakan tanpa satu pun general tentera Israil dibawa kepengadilan (sila lihat sejarah UN) maka itu kaum Yahudi bertambah bongkak, tujuan mereka hanyalah melemahkan kaum Arab disekeliling mereka.
Tesis itu bertajuk "Why the jews so smart" suka cita saya alih bahasakanya secara rengkas. Setelah membaca tesis itu, ianya dapat mengubah cara diet saya, semuga pasangan muda dapat mengamalkanya demi melahirkan jenerasi yg baik.
Hakim Ma'ruf Bin Hj Abdul Kadir
Universiti Massachuset
USA.
Mengapa Yahudi Bijak?
Setelah berada 3 tahun di Israel kerana menjalani housemanship dibeberapa hospital disana, ada beberapa perkara yang menarik dapat saya perhatikan untuk dijadikan tesis ini, iaitu "Mengapa Yahudi Bijak?". Memang tidak dapat dinafikan ramai cendikiawan berbangsa Yahudi, dari segala bidang, Engineering, musik, saintis dan yang paling hebat ialah bidang perniagaan, dimana ia memang paling tersohor. Hampir 70% perniagaan di dunia dikuasai oleh kaum Yahudi, dari kosmetik, pakaian, pemakanan, senjata, perhotelan, perfileman diHollywood dan sebagainya.
Ketika tahun kedua, akhir bulan December 1980 dan sedang saya menghitung hari untuk pulang ke California saya terfikir apakah sebab nya kaum Yahudi begitu pintar? Kenapa tuhan memberi kelebihan kepada mereka? Apakah ini suatu kebetulan? Atau olah manusia sendiri? Adakah bijak boleh dijana? Seperti kilang pengeluaran?
Maka saya pun tergerak membuat tesis untuk Phd saya, disamping kebaikan untuk umat sejagat dan dapat hidup secara harmoni. Untuk pengetahuan anda tesis yang saya lakukan ini mengambil masa hampir lapan tahun, ini kerana untuk mengumpulkan data-data yang setepat mungkin.
Antara data-data yang saya kumpulkan ialah pemakanan, adat resam, ugama, persiapan awal untuk melahirkan zuriat dan sebagainya dan data data tadi saya cuba bandingkan dengan bangsa dan kaum kaum lain.
Marilah kita mulakan dengan persiapan awal melahirkan zuriat. Di Israel, setelah mengetahui yang sang ibu sedang mengandung, pertama kali saya perhatikan ialah, sang ibu akan sering menyanyi dan bermain piano dan si ibu dan bapa akan membeli buku metamatik dan menyelesaikan masalah metamatik bersama suami, saya sungguh hairan kerana teman saya yang mengandung sering membawa buku metamatik dan bertanya kepada saya beberapa soalan yang beliau tak dapat menyelesaikanya, oleh kerana saya memang minat tentang metamatik, tentu saja dengan senang saya bantu beliau. Saya bertanya kepada beliau, adakah ini untuk anak kamu? Beliau menjawab, "ia, ini untuk anak saya yang masih didalam kandungan, saya sedang melatih otak beliau, semuga ia menjadi genius apabila dewasa kelak" Perkara ini membuat saya tertarik untuk mengikut perkembangan beliau seterusnya. Berbalik kepada metamatik tadi, tanpa merasa jenoh beliau membuat latihan metamatik sehingga beliau melahirkan anak.
Seperkara lagi yang saya perhatikan ialah pemakanan beliau, sejak awal mengandung beliau gemar sekali memakan kacang badam dan korma bersama susu , dan untuk tengah hari makan utama beliau ialah roti dan ikan tanpa kepala bersama salad yang digaul dengan badam dan berbagai jenis kekacang, menurut beliau daging ikan sungguh baik untuk perkembangan otak dan kepala ikan mengandungi kimia yang tidak baik yang dapat merosakkan pengembangan dan penumbuhan otak anak didalam kandungan. menurut beliau ini adalah adat orang orang yahudi ketika mengandung dan ianya menjadi semacam kewajipan untuk ibu ibu yang sedang mengandung mengambil pil minyak ikan. (Catatan : Orang –orang yg menghafaz al Quran juga digalakkan mengambil kismis, badam, korma dan susu utk meningkatkan daya ingatan)
Ketika saya diundang untuk makan malam bersama orang orang Yahudi, perkara pertama yang saya perhatikan ialah menu mereka. Setiap undangan yg sama perhatikan ialah mereka gemar sekali memakan ikan (hanya isi atau fillet) dan biasanya daging tidak akan ada bersama dimeja jika ada ikan, menurut mereka, campuran daging dan ikan tak elok dimakan bersama. Salad dan kacang adalah suatu kemestian, terutama bdam. Seperkara yang pelik ialah mereka akan memakan buah buahan dahulu sebelum memakan hidangan utama. Jangan terperanjat jika anda diundang kerumah Yahudi anda akan dihidangkan buah buahan dahulu. Menurut mereka, dengan memakan hidangan kabohidrat (nasi atau roti) dahulu kemudian buah buahan, ini akan menyebabkan kita merasa ngantuk dan lemah dan payah untuk memahami pelajaran disekolah. (Ini juga merupakan sunnah Rasullullah supaya makan buah2an dahulu baru makanan yang berat)
Di Israel, merokok adalah taboo, apabila anda diundang makan dirumah Yahudi, jangan sekali kali merokok, dan tanpa malu mereka akan menyuruh anda keluar dari rumah mereka dam merokok diluar rumah mereka. Menurut saintis di Universiti Israel, siasatan menunjukkan nikotin dapat merosakkan sel utama pada otak manusia dan akan melekat pada genes, ini bermakna keturunan perokok bakal membawa generasi yg cacat otak ( bodoh atau lembab). Suatu penemuan yg dahsyat ditemui oleh saintis yg mendalami bidang genes dan DNA. Para perokok harap ambil perhatian. (Ironi nya, pemilik pengeluar rokok terbesar adalah …… tekalah sendiri..!)
Perhatian saya selanjutnya ialah melawati tadika mereka, Pemakanan anak anak tadi cukup dikawal, makanan awal ialah buah buahan bersama kacang badam, diikuti dengan menelan pil minyak ikan (code oil lever) Didalam pengamatan saya, kanak Yahudi sungguh bijak dan rata rata mereka memahami 3 bahasa iaitu Hebrew, Arab dan Inggeris dan sedari awal lagi mereka telah dilatih bermain piano dan violin, ini adalah suatu kewajipan. Menurut mereka bermain musik dan memahami nota notanya dapat meningkatkan lagi IQ kanak kanak dan sudah tentu bakal menjadikan budak itu bijak.
Ini menurut saintis Yahudi, gegaran musik dapat stimulate (semacam senaman untuk otak) maka itu terdapat ramai sekali genius musik terdiri dari kaum Yahudi.
Seterusnya ke darjah 1 hingga 6, anak anak Yahudi akan diajar metamatik berkonsepkan perniagaan dan pelajaran sains amatlah diberi keutamaan. Di dalam perhatian peribadi saya, perbandingan dengan anak anak di California, ianya jauh berbeza tentang IQ dan boleh saya katakan 6 tahun kebelakang!! !. Segala pelajaran akan dengan mudah di tangkap oleh anak Yahudi. Selain dari pelajaran tadi sukan juga menjadi kewajipan bagi mereka dan sukan yg diberi keutamaan ialah memanah, menembak dan berlari, menurut teman saya ini, memanah dan menembak dapat melatih otak mem fokus sesuatu perkara disamping mempermudahkan persiapan untuk perhidmatan negara. (Ketiga2 sukan ini juga dianjurkan oleh Islam melalui hadith Rasullullah tetapi dilaksanakan oleh bangsa Yahudi yang tahu kebaikannya)
Selanjutnya pemerhatian saya menuju ke sekolah tinggi (menengah) disini murid murid ditekan dengan pelajaran mata sains dan mereka digalakkan mencipta produk, segala projek mereka walaupon kadangkala kelihatannya lucu dan mengarut, tetap diteliti dengan serius apatah lagi ianya berupa senjata, perubatan dan engineering, idea itu akan dibawa ke institute tinggi di Politeknik dan Universiti.
Satu lagi yg di beri keutamaan ialah fakulti perniagaan. Saya sungguh terperanjat melihat mereka begitu agresif dan seriusnya mereka tentang perniagaan. Diakhir tahun diuniversiti, para penuntut dibidang niaga dikehendaki melakukan projek dan memperaktik kanya dan anda hanya akan lulus jika kumpulan anda(10 pelajar setiap kumpulan) dapat keuntungan sebanyak $US1juta! Anda terperanjat? Itulah kenyataan, dengan rangkaian seluruh dunia dan ditaja sepenuhnya oleh syarikat milik Yahudi, maka tidak hairanlah mereka dapat menguasai ½ perniagaan didunia! Siapakah yg mencipta design Levis yg terkini? Ianya dicipta di Universiti Israel oleh fakulti bisnes dan fesyen.
Pernahkah anda melihat cara orang Yahudi melakukan ibadah mereka? Salah satu caranya ialah dengan menggoyangkan kepala mereka, menurut mereka ini dapat mengaktifkan otak mereka dan menambahkan oksijan dikepala, banyak ugama lain di Timur Tengah, seperti Islam juga ada menyuruh umatnya menunduk atau menggoyangkan kepala, ini guna dapat mensimulasikan otak kita supaya bertambah aktif. Lihat orang orang Jepun, mereka sering menunduk nundukkan kepala dan ianya sebagai adat. Ramai orang orang Jepun yg pandai? Adakah ianya sebagai kebetulan? Kegemaran mereka ialah sushi (ikan mentah). Adakah ini kebetulan? Fikirkanlah!
Berpusat di New York, Dewan perniagaan Yahudi bersedia membantu mereka yg berminat untuk melakukan bisnes (sudah tentu untuk Yahudi sahaja) jika mereka ada idea yg bernas, jawatan kuasa akan memberi pinjaman tanpa faedah dan pentadbir dari jawatan kuasa tadi akan bekerjasama dengan anda untuk memastikan yg perniagaan mereka menurut landasan yg betul. Maka itu lahirlah Starbuck, Dell comptr, Cocacola, DKNY, Oracle, Perfileman di Hollywood, Levis, Dunkin Donut dan ada beratus kedai ternama dibawah naungan dewan perniagaan Yahudi di New York. Graduan Yahudi dari fakulti perubatan New York akan disarankan untuk mendaftar dipersatuan ini dan digalakkan memulakan klinik mereka sendiri dengan bantuan wang tanpa faedah, barulah saya tahu mengapa hospital di New York dan California sentiasa kekurangan doktor pakar.
Kesimpulanya, pada teori saya, melahirkan anak dan keturunan yg bijak boleh dilaksanakan dan tentunya bukan semalaman, ianya memerlukan masa, beberapa jenerasi mungkin? Persiapan awal adalah ketika sang ibu mengandung, galakkanlah siibu melakukan latihan metamatik yg mudah tetapi konsisten disamping mendengar musik klasik. Seterusnya ubahlah cara pemakanan, makanlah makanan yg elok dan berhasiat yg baik untuk otak, menghayati musik sejak kecil adalah baik sekali untuk penumbuhan otak kanak kanak, dengan bermain piano dan violin sudah tentu dapat melatih anak anak mencerdaskan otak mereka demikian juga sukan yg memerlukan konsetrasi yg tinggi, seperti memanah, bola keranjang, dart dan menembak.
Merokok menjanjikan jenerasi yg bodoh (goblok) dan sudah tentu genes bodoh akan mengikut ke jenerasi siperokok. Lawatan saya ke Singapore pada tahun 2005 amat memeranjatkan sekali, disini perokok seperti dianak tirikan dan begitu susah sekali untuk perokok dan anda tahu berapa harga sekotak rokok? US$ 7 !!! ini bersamaan perbelanjaan sehari untuk makan anda!! Saya puji sekali sikap pemerintah Singapore dan menkjubkan sekali!!! dan seperti Israel ianya begitu taboo dan cara pentadbiran dan segi pembelajaran mereka hampir serupa dengan Israel, maka itu saya lihat banyak institusi pelajaran mereka bertaraf dunia walaupon hakikat nya negeri Singapore hanyalah sebuah pulau sebesar Manhattan!!
Anda mungkin musykil, benarkah merokok dapat melahirkan jenerasi bodoh, saya telah menemui beberapa bukti menyokong teori ini. Lihat saja Indonesia, jika anda ke Jakarta, dimana saja anda berada, dari restoran, teater, kebun bunga hingga ke musium hidung anda akan segera terbau asak rokok! Dan harga rokok? Cuma US$ .70cts !!! dan hasilnya? Dengan penduduknya berjumlah jutaan orang berapa banyak kah universiti terdapat disana? Hasil apakah yg dapat dibanggakan? Teknologi? Jauh sekali. Adakah mereka dapat berbahasa selain dari bahasa mereka sendiri? Mengapa mereka begitu sukar sekali menguasai bahasa Inggeris? Ditangga berapakah kedudukan mereka di pertandingan metamatik sedunia? Adakah ini bukan akibat merokok? Anda fikirlah sendiri.
Di tesis saya ini, saya tidak akan menimbulkan soal ugama atau bangsa, adakah Yahudi itu zalim sehingga diusir dari semenjak zaman Paraoh hingga ke Hitler, bagi saya itu isu politik dan survival, yg ingin saya ketengahkan ialah, mampu kah kita dapat melahirkan jenerasi yg bijak seperti Yahudi? Jawapannya ialah mungkin dan tidak mustahil dan ianya memerlukan perubahan, dari segi pemakanan dan cara mendididik anak dan saya kira hanya memerlukan 3 jenerasi sahaja. Ini dapat saya lihat sendiri tentang cucu saya, ini setelah saya mengajar anak saya melalui program yg telah saya nyatakan diatas tadi, pada umur 9 tahun (cucu saya) dia dapat menulis essay sepanjang 5 mukasurat penuh. Essay nya hanyalah mengenai Mengapa saya gemarkan tomato!
Selamat sejahtera dan semuga kita dapat melahirkan manusia yg bijak dan bersifat mulia untuk kebaikan manusia sejagat tanpa mengenal batasan bangsa.
Dr. Stephen Carr Leon
Ulasan : Mengapakah cerdik pandai Islam zaman lampau adalah mereka yang bijak dan pakar dalam pelbagai bidang adalah kerana mereka mengamalkan apa yang diajar oleh Rasullullah. Kebanyakan yang diajar kepada masyarakat moden hari ini sebenarnya merupakan apa yang berlawanan dengan ajaran Rasulallah supaya kita tidak mendapat kebaikan tetapi bangsa Yahudi melaksanakannya utk kebaikan bangsa mereka sendiri. Spt contoh pengilang terbesar rokok adalah bangsa Yahudi tetapi mereka tidak menghisapnya. Begitu juga, amalan makan di hotel2, buah2an selepas makanan utama sedangkan Yahudi memakan buah terlebih dahulu spt yg dianjurkan oleh Rasullallah. Yg mungkin tidak disentuh di sini ialah cara makan hari ini yang rata-rata menggunakan tangan kiri menggunakan garfu yg jelas bertentangan dengan ajaran Rasullalah. Adakah kita akan terus menggunakan tangan kiri sambil memegang garfu semata-mata untuk mematuhi etika makan yang dicipta entah siapa. Fikirkanlah : makan dengan tangan kanan, seperti ajaran Islam , kita mendapat ganjaran pahala dpd Allah. Makan dengan tangan kiri, walaupun tidak berdosa tetapi amalan yang sia2, kita cuma berbangga kerana berjaya mematuhi etika makan yang tidak pernah kita selidiki berasal dari mana ???
waulahuaklam...
dear ah heng / wong,
when A bombs B, and B dont fight back, the result there will be no B anymore and became A + A / bigger A.
QUESTION! What will you do if i stronger than you wanted your house and i use power to force you out of your house?
ANSWER - You dont fight back and dont be selfish, just give me your house.
Take note that Dr.M are voicing out and try to stop the killings by campaigning "CRIMINALISE WAR & MAKE WAR A CRIME" throughout the world.
The Jews will never change and as what ALLAH had stated in Quran, beware of them.
asllammuallaikum Tun,
makhlok paling durhaka dengan allah ia lah syaitan kafir juga yahudi & nesrani kafir, selagi dunia masih ujud tiga jenis laknat ni dunia tak aman sebab mereka ramai dan ujud sebelom melayu islam lahir, kelebihan syaitan tak dapat di lihat dan yahudi dengan nesrani bolih lihat tapi mereka tetap makhlok perosak kesejahteran dunia sejagat, yang paling sedih ada orang MECINTA terikut ikut menjahanam negeri sendiri, saperti YAHUDI, makan SUAP
Tun,
1) As long as the Arabs cannot be together, there is no way Israel going to stop. Who is going to stop them?
2) May I suggest UMNO send their members, who can do rally on the streets for some small matters, to Palestine. Make them fight for freedom.
3) Since the Pemuda UMNO has landed on the tougest terrain on the Artic why cant they land in Palestine?
4) Pemuda UMNO can send all the 'Mat Rempits' to Palestine to ride their motorbikes and same time shooting at Israel soldiers. if they can avoid our Police road blocks, what is Israel?
Assalamualaikum Tun Dr Mahathir,
As this is the least we could do to make people like Hanan to understand why we condemned Israelis massacre against Palestine. It's well said :-
1) High tech & chemical weapon (that is internationally banned) which produce massive destruction VS local made primitive rockets which barely demolished anything in Israel
2) It's not Muslims who massacred Jews. It's the arrogant European who happily washed off their hands after its stained with Jewish blood.
3) Blockade that force Palestinians into starvation, scarcity to even live a basic life is very hard. Even macaroni is prohibited from entering Gaza recently.
If I am a Palestinian,
- my home is demolished in order to build an illegal home,
- i don't have a home to house my home theater to watch my favorite programme,
- i don't have job to earn money so i could buy food,
- i don't have enough to eat,
- when i'm sick i can't get a proper medicine let alone vitamines as a food suppliment,
- i can't visit my dying cousin or a newborn niece due to the huge walls that separate me from them,
- i don't have place to release my tense like sports, recreation and vacation,
- i can't walk freely on the street to window shop as i might be suspected as a terrorist and shot at
And the worst part is my 5 months old son in his cradle, my 8 years old daughter studying in her partially complete school and my old grandfather who is sipping his coffee at his favourite spot in my shaggy place that we call home is killed by Israel chemical weapons and high tech bombs.
So.... Hanan, what do you think I might do? How much hatred do you think that the Israelis harbour?
The hatred against Israelis is not only by the Palestinians. Not only by the Muslims but by all mankind, all religions that respect other human being, and cherish peace. This is every human being in this planet who are not agree and condenmed such inhuman act that your government demonstrates.
The day will come, sooner or later, in the near future or many more years that when Israel is no longer exist, the invaded land is once again return to Palestine (Lebanon, Syria, etc) and a Jew is so ashamed to be call as one because of the inhuman crime against another mankind that your father, your grandfather , your great grandfather,or your great-great grandfather did.
bravo tun, your explanation is very clear and now we know that jew is very cruel and can't be accepted in this world
cool am 1st?
US should give their state to the israel ppl - agree
It all dissolves into a simple question for the Israelis. Do you want peace, or do you want more land, soaked in red blood? By the way, the rest of the world seems to want peace, so maybe, just maybe if you join in with the rest of humanity, the world will be a better place to live?
Bravo Tun..
I love u..u r still the voice of Malaysia
Salam Tun,
To Hanan, please shut up, i dont think you are an important person, the more you argue, the more you sound like an idiot. I feel sorry to you man
May Allah bless Tun and Family
A'kum Tun.
Penjelasan yang begitu baik dari Tun. Bukan untuk Hanan sahaja, malah buat semua.
Semoga Tun dan keluarga Tun beroleh rahmat dan dipelihara sejahteraan oleh Allah.
Dear Tun,
What you are writing is really touching any mankinds' hearts.
Dear Hanan,
please.. for the sake of mankind stop this massacre, let's us live in peace. Palestinian mothers loves their children as much as the Jewish mothers love theirs. Yes, do tell your government to compromise!
Dearest Tun,
I was wondering whether you would answer back to Hanan after your last entry on this subject / response to to your blog. Thank god you did!
I have been following up with the response on the other bloggers/readers to this particular subject and it has grown a lot. Last time I checked there were around 587 comments posted. Feedbacks, views came from people of all walk of life. Which is good but I personally believe that the subject itself has become more of a personal attacks against ones religion and beliefs, including a personal attack on our beloved Prophet Muhammad SAW, which is very sad as it would raise more hatred and misunderstanding between people of different beliefs and religions.
Thank you Tun for putting the subject back to prespective.
At the end of the day, the issue is fairly straightforwad but NOT a simple one - basically Israel govt has to stop to the massive killings, occupying the lands of the Palestinians, blockade of food and medicine..etc...
All the boms attacks from Hamas are response to their ongoing plight in THEIR OWN LAND from Israel / Zionist Government!
Israel sending in their tanks, fighter jets, smart missle will never solve the problems. Since the Jews are so smart I'm sure they can find a way to solve these problems where both warring parties will accept a solution sincerely. However the question remains whether Israel are willing to do so or not?
Wassalam
Dear YBGh Tun , Jews are like apples , oranges or carrot . Even if slice them and put them into a juice maker and come out as liquid , they still maintain their properties are apples/oranges/carrot juice . It is unfortunate that Hanan cannot come here to realise what the world looks like . If he could and even if he cannot change his thinking head , he could perhaps brush out his dirty eye sights.
Hi there DR M. You are one of the people whom i respected for a very long time, and i am very touched that you have took up the cause of fighting against war; a cause that if i was in a position to would fight against as well. :)
I was just wondering if its possible to make the issue of WARS (Palestine and Israel included) a Pro PEACE rather then an ANTI war. If you look at history all those that have achieved something in regarding this aspect advocated pro peace rather than anti war.
I am sure anti war has been going on for a long time and its not going anywhere. Its time to call it a half full glass by making it PRO PEACE then a half empty one by calling it ANTI WAR and then CRIMINALIZE those who are ANTI PEACE.
They are of the same thing but one signifies HOPE and the raise to a greater good while the other somehow feels like a reduction of DESPAIR and the lessening of sufferings.
Mr Prime Minister,
On this difficult matter, I regognize in your post an often heard point of view beyond muslim people (I however appreciate how moderate and balanced your statements are). But, coming from a country known to be pro-arab (since de Gaulle), I would like to underline and discuss few elements you mention and I do not really agree with.
First, let's say, it does not seem accurate to me to play the game of "who behaved the worst with Jews" (muslims or western people, that is). Your thesis is that the Europeans were worse. First this can be highly discuss (for, as a European, I see an ENORMOUS difference between pogroms in Russia and the centuries-old French tolerance), then I see a number of facts illustrating a sort of islamic antisemitism. Iran PM's positions (2 or 3 years ago a conference was held in Iran where negationnist theories were largely developp : this is simply not possible in Europe); Roman Catholic Church made a very clear "aggiornamento" about its relationships with the Jews (Vatican II "Nostra Aetate" statement, 1965), while Islam still does not have a widely shared peaceful approach. Last (but not least?), on my passport, it is not written that "this passport is not valid for entering Israel".
Let me please be clear : I do not accuse anybody of anything. I simply consider that making a comparison with Europe to demonstrate that "muslims are not the worse" cannot be an intellectually satisfying explanation!
Saying this does not mean I approve Israel's colonization policy! (far from it!)
Respectfully,
R.
HEAR ! HEAR ! Well said TUN.
Hanan, Post this to your Israel leaders and let them ponder over it.
TCM
Whenever there is a discussion or criticism about Israel-Palestinian, you can be sure of two things.
A. Israelis and Jews from all over the world will condemn the article and subsequently tell the whole world how they have been mistreated and that they are the unluckiest people since Adam. Very often, they will sidetrack from the original issue at hand and tell how their people have been persecuted, murdered, tormented, raped, bullied, etc, etc. In short, they will lead you to believe that the world owes them something.
B. Muslims from all over the world are then compelled to argue the case against Israeli occupation, trying to teach the history of the creation of the state of Israel to the Jewish people (as if they care). And of course, they will then go on complaining how Jews always lie, create propaganda and all nasty things. It is so typical!
It’s an endless cycle and the responses to your blog proved my point. The article titled Palestine, Hanan, Hanan Part 2 has had the most number of hits and most number of messages. Is it a coincidence? Hardly, how do you explain so many Israel loving and Jews to suddenly write and comment on the blog? Did they all of a sudden magically find interest to write to you?
As Dr. M has correctly pointed out, this debate and battle will go on for another 60 year, and it will go on for another 60 years to come. Why? Israelis and Jews will always think they are right, no matter how horrid or evil actions that be, they will always be right. You don’t even have to waste time arguing with this statement; you have seen pictures of Israeli soldiers killing babies and children at point blank range (many times, not once); but yet it has always been merely brushed off as “collateral damage”. Anyone with a conscious or minute amount of pity or even traces of humanity, you will know that this is wrong and by no means it can be right. Religion has nothing to do with this, you can be believer of any religion but killing babies and innocent victims is outright evil.
If we filter emotions and religion aside, the Israeli & Palestine issue is very simple:
* Pre World War 1, land belong to the Palestinians
* Post World War 2, bulk of land are forcefully taken by Israelis
* Post Israel: Arab war, more land occupied by Israel, town and cities renamed to Hebrew names, local inhabitants being ousted elsewhere with no consent.
* Palestinians was original land owner, they woke up one day to be told that they own the land no more. They can’t argue, because the gun is pointed at their heads, even if they disagree, they will be thrown in prison under the guise as a threat and enemy of the state.
I do not understand in the modern context of things how this can ever be legal. No sale and purchase agreement, no willing buyer and willing seller, but yet it is considered done! Daylight robbery was never easier.
All these talk about negotiating with the Israelis!!! How can it work? The principle of negotiation is “give and take”. Thus far, we can establish that both parties want the land! Right now, Israel have the land and (by illegal means I remind you) what more do they want? The Israelis want complete domination and the construction of their temple at the present site of Al-Aqsa mosque. No negotiations will ever come to this, Palestinians and Muslims rather die than to allow this! The Israelis knows this very well and that is why Al-Aqsa stands firm, for now at least. Go and check the following website link below of the Unesco website. Al-Aqsa mosque, to my surprise, is NOT specifically listed as a world heritage site. I think this is a deliberate ploy to reduce world condemnation if the event Israel go ahead and destroy it. And to think UNESCO lists White City of Tel-Aviv as a heritage site, that place was only established in the 1930’s. Al-Aqsa has been around for thousands of years.
http://whc.unesco.org/en/statesparties/il
But you have to admire the Jewish people for their tenacity and never giving up nature. They always have a plan, and they are always in the midst of executing their plans. Even in Dr. M’s blog they are doing their part. Hanan, BladeLizard, IloveJew are some examples. The moment you comment on Israel, they will write back saying how we are wrong, they are right, if situation was reversed we would done the same, they have been persecuted and unjustly treated, etc. You get the same rubbish everywhere (USA, Europe, South Africa, Hong Kong, Singapore), just say something against Israel and your will get plenty of these backlashes.
The story of Israel vs. Palestine has always been portrayed as a Religious war! This is intentionally done so, and Arabs and Muslims all over the world are being so dumb not to understand the rationale behind this.
For the Israelis, the benefits of this being viewed a “Religious War” is the following:
1. Atrocities and devastation against humanity is tolerated in a religious war. (Read the history of the Crusaders, they do not see the Muslims as other human beings, rather as devil’s party. They killed children, raped, etc in the name of holy war! The irony is, they really believed they were holy and have a pathway to heaven).
2. International community will ignore this spat as this is “their war”. Have you seen countries of other faith (apart from Europe & USA who were the responsible for the creation of Israel in the first place) made any meaningful gesture of disapproval? Chinese who are predominantly Buddhist don’t care about this war, neither does the Japanese who are Shinto believers and Indians who are mostly Hindus don’t talk too much about this war either. There is simply no interest to look beyond the religious animosity and question the crime against humanity.
3. Secular law is always at crossroads with religious law. This is a subject that all politicians shuns away and hates to deal with. And therefore, no head of state of any country would want to dwell and get themselves involve in a religious war in another country. No way José
For all the Muslims out there, wake up and start realizing that the Israel vs. Palestinian is not a religious war! It is a war against humanity and human rights! It is a war against the rights for freedom, rights to education and a war against economic prosperity! It is imperative this unjust perception be changed as quickly as possible for any progress to be made. Face the music, since 1907 this has been fought as a “religious war” and it has greatly benefited the Zionist and a shame to the Muslims.
If it was viewed as a war against humanity of fight for freedom, the international community will be less inclined to support the Israel cause. Remember South Africa and its apartheid system? No bombs or overthrowing the regime was required to correct the situation; the apartheid had to go down because everybody in the world is condemning the human rights violation! Other success stories are Timor Leste and Indonesia, India and the British, Malaysia and the British and so many others.
I’m going to backtrack a bit and talk about Israel’s probable plan to destroy Al-Aqsa and complete occupation. Since they have deeply established that this is a “religious war”, the second phase is to brand and associate Muslims as terrorist! Every movie you see nowadays, the bad fella is bound to be Muslim terrorist! From Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Southern Philippines, Indonesia, Chechnya. The more brutal and the more evil you can associate Muslim as terrorist, the better it is for the Israel cause.
Israel has attacked Arab militias seeking refuge in Bethlehem Church a few years ago. It was a negative setback to their image, but nonetheless it was used as a benchmark on how the world will react to attacks on holy places. And I believe, if the situation is repeated again and the venue is Al-Aqsa mosque, they will happily attack and make excessive damage to the mosque. It was unthinkable to do this in the past, but NOW Muslims are condemned with the images as savage, bloodthirsty and ever willing to blow themselves up terrorists. Isn’t it clear to you now why this negative image and guise of religious war is so important for the Israel cause?
A note for Muslims: battling the might of Israel and the Jews is not about brute force, spiteful writing and trying to explain to the Jews that they are wrong. You can continue to waste your time if you want; it hasn’t done any good for the greater part of the past century.
Dr. M has pointed out that the likely outcome for brute warfare is 10 Palestinians will die for every Israeli. And that the Palestinians cannot win the war! Dr. M has mentioned to boycott American and Israeli supported products. It’s not easy, but if there is a collective effort to try, the results will be there.
Here are some subtle evidences to the success of the boycott campaign
* If you go to supermarkets, you will notice that Coca-Cola has reduced their price by quite a bit. More than 15% in my observation, in an attempt to drive sales.
* McDonald’s is making offer of RM5.95 for their lunch value meal. McDonald’s have never done an offer so cheap like this! It is cheaper than your side street nasi campor. So they definitely trying hard to get back the lost market.
* I noticed a closure of a Starbuck’s coffee outlet. OK, its just one store, maybe not a good indicator.
1.YB Tun, your ability to articulate is as sharp as ever and it puts the issue into perspective.So proud of our ex_PM :)
2. The truth out there is 'coloured' by the various self interest groups....I know this as a fact because my own people from where my grandparents originate from in Sri Lanka are affected by this. They have been branded terrorist in toto and all their struggles and sufferings deflected off in the name of LTTE@Tigers!..so sad as civilians are being murdered and no one speaks up for them. (thats why i sincerely emphatize with my bretheren in Palestine)
3. Tun, people live in their own realities and limited "truths" and your initiative is highly comendable as you aspire to bring clarity.
4. I think Tun, you have the ingenuity and sincerity to bring on some thought leaders among the Jew people (as not all Jews subscribe to the Zionist agenda) and get them to engage and debate with the likes of Hamas and other Palensitinian thought leaders. Your initiatives for the Palenstinians needs to be taken to a newer heights.
5. In the home front, I hope your views are subscibed by the powers that are, as I believe the rakyat are getting very dissillusioned.
6. Political rhetorics and misuse of mainstream media by some of them is "chasing" us away to the new and social media.
7.The danger is not all social media is responsible..each has its own objectives and agendas! (Hope Chedet is what you see is what you get...minus any personal gain agenda :) ) - Just joking Tun!
8. The more we ignore the need to shape the sentiments of the rakyat to face the onslaught of this global economy, other thought leaders will be born and the government of the day will be perceived as too weak or corrupt. Never in the history of Malaysia have we had a situation where a large number of Malaysians are already doubting or not welcoming the PM in waiting (never trust what u read on the mainstream about the rakyat's enthusiasm to see him take power), neither as any 1st Lady attracted such negative perception as the "PM in waiting"'s wife has!
9. Tun please act on behalf of all Malaysians....just like Gazan's, we (all Malaysians) stand to loose all that we have built....let us reunite as Malaysia and as Malaysians....I am so fed up to be called India....when I am a Malaysian from a Sri Lankan Tamil Origin!....my grand parents made a concious decision to remain here :)
God Bless Malaysia and God Bless Tun..Malaysia Boleh
Dear Tun,
Extremely articulate, exceedingly clear. Anybody who wants to understand will know this is a territorial war and not a religious war. But it is to the benefit of both sides to turn it into a religious war, intentionally or otherwise, in order to win sympathy and support. There is no end in sight because everybody who is invovled in finding a so-called solution is more intent on finding a situation that will benefit their purpose the most. In the end, the people of Gaza and the people of Israel suffer, the hatred betwen the two sides increase and the religious divide gets ever bigger.
TUN!!!!!!!!!!!
ASSALAMUALAIKUM...MAY ALLAH BLESS YOU WITH GOOD HEALTH....AMEEENNNNN!!!
MT TITLE:"BETWEEN BRAIN AND HEART IS LIKE BETWEEN HUMBLENESS AND ARROGANT"
Tun,
When I read your comments on what Hanan had written to you , it tells me how a person acts when he used both his brain and heart and also show how a person acts when he just used his brain.
Hanan always think he is right, as you said...and